East Africa: Brief correction about Luo family tree and lineage, and migration from Sudan to Kenya

From: Leo Odera Omolo

THE LUO FAMILY TREE LINEAGE FROM NUBA HIILS TO WAU STATE SOUTHERN SUDAN, UGANDA TO KENYA AND TANZANIA.

I have been reading a lot of concocted stories about the Luo family tree lineage by one Ajos Wuod Atiga Nyar-Ocholla., and although I am not disagreement with him, I should like to put forward the following corrections.

We start from Wau Province now one of the states in Southern Sudan.

There was a serious outbreak of anthrax {Opere} which whipped out the entire livestock that were owned by the Lwos {Luo}. Following this incident, which experts says took place around 1300 the community resorted to fishing along the River Nile for survival. And this is how it earned the derogatory names Jo-Oluo-Aora ( Meaning Luos}.

Previous the Lwo group had briefly occupied Nuba Hills, which are located North of Khartoum, the present of the Nubians {Wanubi},small community of Negroes believed to be the closest cousins of the Lwo Speaking groups. This the first stop after Egypt, a country which the group had conquered and ruled for some times.

The Chieftain at the material time was Sinakuru.He is the father of Podho{1} who in turn fathered Ringruok,who is the father of Owat,and Owat is the father of Twaifo, the of Jok {1}.Jok [1} fathered a son called Nayo,and it was Nayo fathered Jok {11} who is the father of Ramogi [1}.

Rampgi {1} had two sons Aruwa and Podho{2}.

Aruwa and Podho were involved in a serious dispute after Podho speared an elephant to scare away a herds of elephants which were destroying the family farm of sorghum. Aruwa is reported to have insisted in getting back his very spear, though he knew that the animal had escaped with the spear sticking on its body to the thick forest and the spear was irretrievable and the issue was near impossible.

The two brothers disagreed and got separated each choosing and following his own path. Podho chose to move eastwards, while Aruwa move westward.

Today the descendants of Aruwa are the varius community and tribes scattered all over Africa, most of them have settled In Centra and West Africa. They include the communities like the Acholis, Gang. Chopi, Aluru, Langi {Lang’o}Kwa. Lughbuara, Madi, Kuku, Mondo, Lukoya,Lubira, Yom. Others are Siluk and Dinka and Nuer.

The descendants of Aruwa are scattered all over Africa, though the majority lives in Southern Sudan, Uganda and Central African Republic. But few of these people could be traced in Chad, Cameroun, Ghana and Nigeria.

After the two disagreed and separated, Podho who moved eastwards got several sons who included Ramogi[2} Lang’ni, Omia, Okombo, Didandand Muwiru.

Ramogi {2} had two sons, Nyaluo and Ramogi{3} who is commonly known as Ramogi Ajuwanbg”. He earned the extra name Ajuwang’ because his father Ramogi {2} died while he was still in his mother’s womb.

Nyaluo fathered Omolo {1}who is the father of Ochielo and Ochiel {Ochiel} had two sons Ragem{Gem} and Migenya {Ugenya}. And Migenya became the father of Anam Lwanda, Omolo [2}, Gor, Deje, Waljack {Kager}, Nyamwot, Rachiewo and Nyiner.

The Southern Luo got scattered while they were travelling eastwards. Some of their people lost their way while travelling through Uganda and got lost and melted into some other tribes in that country..The Ugenya and Jok group settled in a place called Band in Busoga, while Owiny, Muwiru and Omolo group came through Tororo and Mt Elgon.

It was Ramogi [3} or Ramogi Ajuwang” who arrived in Kenya and temporarily settled and built a home in a place called Ligala in Bunyala.The place is still called by that name t-date. He then crossed Rwambwa and Yala Swamp to Got Ramogi in what is the presently called Yimbo-Kadimo.

When Ramogi Ajuwang’ reached Got Ramogi he had his eldest son Jok [3} And Jok got a son there who was called Imbo.

Imbo had nine sons, namely Mumbo, Dimu {Dimo}, Nyinek, Iro, Magak, Nyiywen, Nyikal. Rado and Julu.

Mumbo is the father of Muljwok, and Uyawa and Muljwo is the father of Alego, Chwanya, and Omia.

IT WAS Alego who the first to moved eastwards from Got Ramogi’s ancestral home. He crossed River Yala and settled in a place called Nyandiwa .Here Alego faced the stiffest resistance from some concocted smaller Bantu tribes which had sworn not to allow the Joka=Owiny and Joka-Ramogi to set foot in this territor, but Alego had somehow superior force which overcome the Kombe Kombe group as they were called then. These are the people who run across River Yala and settled in Yimbo and form parts of the 54 sub-tribes living in Yimbo today.But they were later overturned and conquered by the Domo, Owil, Nyiywen and Wareje group which were part of Joka-Owiny.

It is arguably that nearly all the Luo sub-clans living in Nyanza might have settled in Alegoi before moving to their present land.

I am kindly requesting your historian Ajos Wuod Atiga Nyar-Ocholla to do some home work and studies. He could either endorse my version or dispute these historical facts and open up public debate.

I could go further, but let me pen off here and allow him time to respond. Although agreed with him on many other facts, but most of his facts stands to be corrected and I should like to encourage him to go ahead and do much serious research before posting some stories to the website or compare notes with other writers.

Ends

leooderaomolo@yahoo.com

74 thoughts on “East Africa: Brief correction about Luo family tree and lineage, and migration from Sudan to Kenya

  1. Wuod luo

    We have to be very careful in the way we conceive some post /comments about any ancient history and especially the luo story. Some of them carry excitements from works of researchers/scholars whose studies are superficial and not well grounded. A credible study need to be confirmed by traditions and culture of the people, archaeological findings, DNA tests, names of places, etc. These can help us trace the past properly. Some names can be coincidences for example the word luo appears both Chinese and luo languages but they do not mean the same. the word jap shortened for japadhola made a Japanese scholar think that ther is a close link between Japanese and Jopadhola. Those referring to Alenyo’s works on luos have brought in excitements but some of the key aspect of his book have no strong grounds for example the people who were living in pre-historic times wren not called luos. The word luo emerged in the late 12th century A.D. in memory of a Luo king called Uluo Atyak when his descendants were being referred to as luos. Uluo Atyak was a Nuer king. The pharaohs related to the present day luo were Nuer/

  2. Wuod Rwoth

    The name of Adhola before he developed the wounds is Unongor or Onongor a word related to the white peas luos call Ngor. You will get more about the story of Adhola in my forthcoming book entitled ” The Jupadhola, the Luo of Tororo”. Wish you well.

  3. Ja'keno Okech-Ojony Dr

    Wuod Rwoth,

    Thanks for rapide response,
    However, let us continue with the research on that issue, as for orthograpy I refer you to a recent work of the Tieng Adhola team led by Prof Anthony Okech “CIK Mandiko Dhopadhola”, authority from Dhopadhola Language board, who produced a book about this.
    The right orthography about title of your book should start and read,The Jopadhola, Dhopapadhola, and not, Jupadhola Dhupadhola, Dho comes from Dhok, as opposed to Leb or lew tounge from our other luos, however, Alur, Adhola and Jop’Owiny maintain DHOK (JO come comes from “of” as opposed to JU which is an adulteration), and not LEB or LEW which means the same thing moreless, language! Dhu is also an adulteration of Dho, DHOK, therefore The Jopadhola, and not Jupadhola.
    I wish you good and properous research on and about the luos and the Jopadhola in general. Joaoo

  4. Wuod Luo

    The word Nazareth is not related to kingship! Etymologically the word Nazareth originated from Hebrew word meaning a branch. it is true that Jesus’ home place is Nazareth but there is no clear close relation between Jesus and Luos especially on racial lines The word reth can be traced to the word rwt in Ge’z language which has some bits of ancient language meaning chief or king . The Luos variously write this as rwoth, rwot or ruoth which is close tp the original word taking into consideration that Hebrew had th in some of their words. The Shiluk use use the word Reth to mean king or chief. Nazareth is written as Nasirah and Nazarat Arabs and Turks. As I said earlier sometimes same words can mean different thing so care should be taken when we connect words . We may mislead others.

  5. Tiyekidi

    Lets Get the Basics Straight…

    Dholuo as you know it is a languge a group of people who were migrating southwards down the nile picked up while they lived amongst the southern sudanese peoples…. It is not their original or naitve Languge.

    Therfore following any trail stemming from that language will not lead you beyond the South of Sudan.

    There is No tribe or people By the Name Shilluk or Dinka. These words are mispronouciations of the names Chollo and Jieng. Speakers of Northern Sudanese Dialects (or Arabic for that matter)

  6. Tiyekidi

    Let’s Get a few Basics Right…

    Luo Did Not Fall from the Sky…

    In order to be who they are and where they are the must exist a path that leads back to their Parent.

    Accounts of a Southern Sudanese or African Origin of these People falls well short of this mark.

    Why Because when you are told that they are of the Shilluk Nuer or Dinka Run into a stone wall.

    There is No tribe or people By the Name Shilluk, Dinka or Nuer.

    http://countrystudies.us/sudan/37.htm

    These are Arabic mispronunciations of the names Chollo and Jieng and Naath.

    Speakers of Northern Sudanese Dialects (or Arabic for that matter) pronounce these names as Schollok, Jienka and Nuer respectively to this day.

    “Shilluk’’ is an abusive word Meaning Black. Diedroh Westermann 1913.

    Dholuo Language

    Dholuo is ANY Language Spoken by a Luo that he adopts as His own.

    The actual language has varied significantly over Time and Migratory route.

    The Current version spoken in Kenya was Pickup from the Chollo in Southern Sudan as they passed through there.

    It is not the Luo’s native Language, Explanation and supporting evidence provided in my previous posts.

    Therefore following any linguistic trail stemming from what is spoken at this time as Dholuo will not lead beyond the South of Sudan, where it is known that the Luo arrived amongst them from some-place else and were not spawned by any of the communities in that region.

    Luo are distinguished not just for their wit but also intelligence and it is these qualities alongside an open mind that will enable one to synthesise the Mountain of growing evidence attesting to Complex interactions between People and Environment that ultimately delivered the Luo to their current abode in East Africa.

    In My last posting I asked that u find out which tribe Ali Hassan Omar El-Bashir President of the Republic of the Sudan belongs to.

    We all know him and I think he gives face to the conundrum encountered while directing ones investigation of relation and congruence to those who only look and speak like we imagine they should.

    http://www.sudantribune.com/IMG/pdf/Kenya_arrest_warrant_01232011.pdf

    He is from the Ja-aali tribe.

    Who are the Ja-aali where do they live ?

    http://countrystudies.us/sudan/38.htm

    The two largest of the supratribal categories in the early 1990s were the Juhayna and the Jaali (or Jaalayin). The Juhayna category consisted of tribes considered nomadic, although many had become fully settled.

    The Jaali encompassed the riverine, sedentary peoples from Dunqulah to just north of Khartoum and members of this group who had moved elsewhere. (UNDERSCORE)

    Some of its groups had become sedentary only in the twentieth century.

    Sudanese saw the Jaali as primarily indigenous peoples who were gradually arabized.

    Sudanese thought the Juhayna were less mixed, although some Juhayna groups had become more diverse by absorbing indigenous peoples.

    The Baqqara, for example, who moved south and west and encountered the Negroid peoples of those areas were scarcely to be distinguished from them.

    Thus Jaali and Juhayna were not Originaly Negroid and only became so as a result of contact with negriod peoples.

    So El-Bashir May be a Luo and if he was he it would be most exciting because Neither he nor his people are Negriod nor do they claim descendancy from the South of Sudan.

    Where did he and his people come from ?

    Ja-aali why is this Name significant to a Ja-luo?

    Let us first investigate how many words we are looking at in the Name Ja-aali

    There is the Possessive Determiner – Ja , & the Person … aali.

    The Geographic location of the Ja-aali people falls directly on the path that the Ja- luo passed on his way down to Kenya.

    JA once again being the possessive determiner in JA –luo inferring that -aali may be a regional pronunciation of the Person described by the pronoun.

    This word may be Luo or a word sounding much like it.

    This can be investigated & proven by Tri-lateration.

    1. Sudanese Ja-aali record that some of their peoples migrated elsewhere (Call these the Luo & People X)

    2. Luo’s recall Being in Egypt and that some of their peoples headed West (People X).

    3. People X, we are yet to discover their Location an Identity.

    Meaning that to the West of the Jaali in The Sudan and the Luo In East Africa there should be a group of people (People X) bearing the name Ja- Luo (or similar) who have a common history of having originated in Egypt.

    If indeed People X exist in West Africa this would be a major breakthrough and would confirm that the Ja-aali, Ja-Luo and People X were one and the same.

    First who should we look For as People X?

    Ans. Identify Communities bearing non African Bloodlines in Egypt and in West Africa.

    Illustration

    Y-Haplogroup R1b Prevalence Map (Born of the same European Man)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

    Around Lake Chad we observe Prevalence of up to 40% of this European Haplogroup in People X.

    From the locals (People X) we learn of their origin in Egypt.

    http://bandirabe-fulbe.blogspot.com/2011/01/origin-of-fulani-people.html

    Amongst these People who say they came from Egypt, we find this NAME at an Extremely high frequency.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diallo

    Diallo (pronounced jallo) is the French transcription of a surname of Fula origin (English transcriptions are Jalloh and Jallow.

    Therefore People X are the Fulani and the Hausa.

    Genetic Corroboration of this Trilateral Relation and a Bi-directional Migration from Egypt.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_people
    According to a Y-DNA study by Hassan et al. (2008), about 40% of Hausa in Sudan carry the West Eurasian haplogroup R1b. The remainder and majority belong to various Sub-Saharan paternal lineages: 15.6% B, 12.5% A and 12.5% E1b1a. A small minority of around 3% are E1b1b clade bearers, a haplogroup which is most common in North Africa and the Horn of Africa.[7]
    In terms of overall ancestry, an autosomal DNA study by Tishkoff et al. (2009) found the Hausa to be most closely related to Nilotic populations from Nigeria, Cameroon, central Chad and South Sudan.
    This suggests that the Hausa and other modern Chadic speaking populations originally spoke Nilo-Saharan languages, before later adopting languages from the Afro-Asiatic family.[8]
    “From K = 5-13, all Nilo-Saharan speaking populations from Kenya, Tanzania, southern Sudan, and Chad cluster with west-central Afroasiatic Chadic speaking populations

    ***** MOST IMPORTANT *****
    These results are consistent with linguistic and archeological data, suggesting a possible common ancestry of Nilo-Saharan speaking populations from an eastern Sudanese homeland within the past ~10,500 years, with subsequent bi-directional migration westward to Lake Chad and southward into modern day southern Sudan, and more recent migration eastward into Kenya and Tanzania ~3,000 ya (giving rise to Southern Nilotic speakers) and westward into Chad ~2,500 ya (giving rise to Central Sudanic speakers.

    ****** MOST IMPORTANT *****
    A proposed migration of proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers ~7,000 ya from the central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin may have caused many western Nilo-Saharans to shift to Chadic languages.
    Our data suggest that this shift was not accompanied by large amounts of Afroasiatic16 gene flow. Analyses of mtDNA provide evidence for divergence ~8,000 ya of a distinct mtDNA lineage present at high frequency in the Chadic populations and suggest an East African origin for most mtDNA lineages in these populations
    This is again confirmed by the story of the Journey of Mankind as captured and presented by Dr Steven Opennheimer of the Bradshaw foundation.

    http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

    The presentation of their findings on Y and Mt DNA taken from populations all over the globe. It discusses how Global Weather (ice Ages) and natural disasters and other factors interacted with the migrating human populous as evidenced by blood and fossil evidence gathered.

    Very interesting and interactive please take a look at it. It also may provide a clue as to why a group in China may be called Luo as well.

    By our present understanding of the Peopling of the Nile Basin, Fulani and Hausa confirm that (irrespective of the bloodlines Luo are found to be carrying today) their Presence in East Africa is as a direct result of a backward migration (Into Africa) of Indo-European and Middle Eastern people.

    This in Population genetics is called the founder Effect. You can read more about it here…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder_effect

    In population genetics, the founder effect is the loss of genetic variation that occurs when a new population is established by a very small number of individuals from a larger population. It was first fully outlined by Ernst Mayr in 1942,[1] using existing theoretical work by those such as Sewall Wright.[2] As a result of the loss of genetic variation, the new population may be distinctively different, both genotypically and phenotypically, from the parent population from which it is derived. In extreme cases, the founder effect is thought to lead to the speciation and subsequent evolution of new species.

    All in all a small Group of Luo came Down from Babylon they found their way into Egypt lived there for some years then in a two pronged migration moved south westwards through the Sahara towards lake Chad .

    The second smaller group moved southwards along the Nile into southern Sudan and East Africa.

    In both cases they lost their language(s)and changed colour as they established themselves within a larger Negriod populous and overtime gave rise the folks u see today living on the shores of Lake Victoria.

    If Continuity has been maintained, these Babylonian Bloodlines may still exist amongst the East African Luo and could be captured in DNA testing.

    If not then indeed the founders of our population will have done their part in narrating to us the story of their journey and we should do all we can to ensure that this story is passed on as we received it

    Do Not Lose Your Story…..

  7. Francis Odhiambo

    So many Luos are loosing there heritage tree….Can some work be done for the benefit of generations to come. I can only get my tree upto Ogelo…the rest no..can you assist..

  8. Wuod Rwoth

    We are given names. The name Chollo , Sholok or Collo as well as Acholi were given by Arabs and mean thte same thing. because it is abusive am not going to explain . This name was found in the diary of the late Fr.P Carazollara who carried out extensive research of the Luos in Northern Uganda and Sudan. The late John Alfred Oroch together with Fr. Carazollara who carried out research on Luo history and met elders and other traditional leaders among the Nuer, Shilluk, Jurchol, Anyuak, Joluo of Kenya and Tanzania, DR Congo and Uganda luos. They gathered a lot of information about Luos. They were in Egypt to see Aswan before most historical evidence was destroyed when the place became a dam. it was from the traditional leaders that we are able to get our oral history that luos originated from the ancient Nuer not the current ones.

  9. Wuod Rwoth

    Linguistic approach for the study of our history is essential. As a luo there are names of peoples and places though they may have some omissions and changes in letters that have meanings in most Luo languages. Take for example names like kerma, thombos, kom ombo in Sudan; Cairo (kairo), Carthage ( or kartek), Dier al Habar (can be pronounced Dier Abar ) in Egypt and Adana, Konya, Adiyaman, Cikcilli in Turkey. These could lead us to discovering the luo trail,
    The Shilluk, Nuer and Dinka elders interviewed in late 1950s and rhe Joluo (Jur chol) claim that they once had an organized royal kingdom which they claim they lost it. Their views were that their leptong or lebtong (royal spear head) went south and this is being geld by the Alur king. The leptong was saved from destruction by the Arab invaders. The story of the movement of the royal kingdom south wards is reserved to another post.
    Apart from the Jaluo of Kenya and Tanzania there are three tribes in Southern Sudan calling themselves Joluo . These are the Jur Chol, Luo Bori (Belanda Bor) and Thuri (Boodho/Shatt). This reinforces the claim that in Wau where King Uluo Atyak reigned as Luo King there remained some traces of the luo presence even after many centuries of separation of the luos.

  10. Wuod Rwoth

    Where luos originated from will remain a puzzle unless we get deeper in our research. At the foot of the mountains (there-got or te-got or sometimes the-got)) has been taken by historians as Nuba Mountains and others think it is Zagros Mountains. The civilization at Aswan where luos seemed to have lived for a long time has not been mentioned or properly explained in history books/articles. Archaeology at Aswan will uncover a lot about luo history. Archaeology at Bar el Ghazal especially Wau will also yield more results of luo past. We know some of the edifices built and left by luos were destroyed by invaders and are buried in the sand dunes in Egypt and Sudan. For some us luos kidi refers to a stone not a rock or mountain.

  11. Odota

    Technology is moving fast especially in field of communication; I do not know whether anything is being done to enhance genealogical studies. I do hope that a conclusion will be arrived at pointing at exact origin of the luo people. I know it is a motivation to go that length and bring out discoveries. I think it can also be rewarding to involve the wider anthropology fraternity other than relying on folk tales alone. I have been to Egypt and saw how they tried to recreate history of ancient Egypt, bringing out the Moses’ errors to the visitation by Mary and the child Jesus, they call the place pharaonic village, somewhere within the swamp on the Nile River. I would love to read published papers on luo genealogy based on scientific facts, I hope we have folks who teach and treasure history, although I have met many luos who are Engineers and math experts, Otherwise, my leanage from my mother’s side stops with Ja lei, as they crossed the Nile at pakwach into the current nebbi district.

  12. Wuod Rwoth

    I agree that we have many history professors and scholars but as we know research is expensive and needs proper guidance. People usually concentrate on formal award researches because of what they yearn to achieve. This brings in the point of interest for the study. Several people like the late John Alfred Oroch, Professor Ogot have done some works on Luo geanology. In the absence of archaeology oral tradition or history which sound like myths shows us the way, except that sometimes there will be need for deep examination and deciphering. The fraternity of luo anthropologists need to have interest and to be proud to be known as luo and agree to work together. The issue of lack of funding has left many works still in scripts and those typed have not yet been published. Interested readers are left without valuable and interesting materials to read. Sometimes poorly researched work get published and bring uncalled for excitement or untruths.

  13. Tiyekidi

    The untruths we speak are the unsupported statements we make drawn from our personal or collective imagination on the Genesis of the Luo.

    The Question of Origin of a people relates to deep ancestry.

    Without the strict guidance, limitation and direction of scientific principal and fact, what we say we remember could easily be drawn from the Deep Dark Depths of Conjecture to an unwarranted or unsurpassed degree.

    Most importantly what we need is an interrogative, inquisitive and open mind to allow us to seek, question and digest the information we come across and not wait for some else to do it for us.

    Without this, the truth may arrive in a Blue Mercedes-Benz at 10 past noon, smack each one of us in the face and we will never know who accosted us.

    Research Funding is not required beyond your internet subscription to your ISP, several genealogical investigations have so far been undertaken and their findings are available online.

    Don’t wait to be spoon fed.

    Read and tell us about what you found where you get stuck just ask here on this forum for assistance.

    R1b-V88

    Do Not Lose your story,,,, Luo is from Iran.

  14. Odota

    Wow, for sure this has been a little good news, a blue Benz in the 10 past noon hour!!. Some links will help those interested to move on with knowledge search about the Luo origin. But to say Luos were from Iran is also not enough, Iran is not the origin of man kind and that’s where we want to go.. far beyond what we can envisage. I believe all through human dispensations literature were recorded and through geological, archeological and what ever means those literature can be unveiled. The motivation here is to get those historical facts about luos and hence, humanity as a whole. And this is where money comes in, because tools will be needed, experts will be hired from all parts of the world, engagements of all kinds …. However, one fact is true, that the first man and woman on earth were Adam and Eve and no historical facts has established that linkage, I need to be shown that resource!!!

  15. Nyakuar Ondenge ka Aroko

    The best option is to start with ancient sudanic people along midle nile,Thebes and others like Alodia, Nobatia etc.The word pharao is europian corruption of the word `paru`(wuon paru), which to all luo speakers means ,the head of the home.The male head of the home as understood by luo and nilotes of sudan is responsible for performing rituals at the time of planting season.Any luo person knows the ritual very well,I dont have to exlain this because as I write the ritual is strictly observed in Nyanza.The same ritual is practised in South Sudan by the nilotes much the same as their ancestors did.This was also the role of ancient pharaos, in fact it is what gave them the power to control people and eventually became the ruler of het-pta,later called aegpta by Mycenians and Ionians.It is supposed to be pronounced in modern dholuo as od pta,meaning the house of pta(or temple).Het is house in ancient egyptian language which in modern luo is ot.Tta is an ancient deity for whom the ancients built the temple at Karnak(later called Abidios by Greeks).The temple was an important place for initition.Now, in modern dholuo nak means initiation.The place where initiation is done is called karnak.The importance of linguistic aproach is evident from this brief analysis.Take another example…..the word `love` in egyptian is ler,i.e lera means love me.In luo ,love is her and so love me is hera.Old age in egyptian is `ti`,which is identical with the luo word for the same.What more evidence does one need to identify the luo as the fouders of ancient egypt ? I am kindly requesting leo omolo odera to write to me and share with me his great wealth in luo history.I am an amatuer in luo history but i am greatly interested in this great race of men.There wonderfull achievements give me the greatest inpiration,particularly when the greate philosopher,Bertrand Russell,records in his book how Thebes brought Sparta to its end.I wonder how luo speakers crossed the deseart and meditereniean sea and finish the mighty european city state.What kind of men were they?

  16. Tiyekidi

    Which factor determines Kinship.

    Is it Language ?

    If people speak in the same language then, therefore they are related. Easy…

    Is it Culture ?

    If people do things in the same way and for the same reason, then they are one and the same.

    Then I don’t understand, that if this were the case why are Luo not counted amongst the ranks of English Gentry.

    Because if they speak the Queens English, worship her Deity in the same mode as she does in Westminster Abbey, then why are they not related to the House of Windsor.

    Kinship Must therefore stem from something else.

    Use of a Language.

    Practice of a culture

    Does Not dictate Kinship between people.

    Why because we know that there are reasons other than birth that cause people to speak in a given language or practice a similar culture.

  17. Nyariwo Odongo

    I’ very inspired by what I read about Luo’s it is very interesting. Linguistically, there is a lot of connection. I was reading of the words like Cairo (Kar iro), a place of smoke. Khartoum (Kar thum), apparently it was a place for entertainment. We have Bar el Gazar and Bar is all over Luo nation. It literally means a glade (a grass land surrounded by tall bushes or forest. It is where herbivores graze and carnivores hunt. If you go the existing forests like in Aberderes, Kakamega, mount Kenya then you clearly see the glades (what the Luos call “Bar”)

  18. Tiyekidi

    You are a single individual.

    You have

    2 parents,
    4 grand parents,
    8 Great Grand parents
    16 Great Great Grand parents.

    Given a Generation time of 25 years time to child bearing) we can calculate the number of ancestors you have between now and a given time in history.

    The mathematical expression describing the exponential relationship to the number of ancestors you have in a given generation is

    2n = x 2 exponentiated to the nth

    Where.

    2 is the Number of Persons in a Reproductive Pair.
    n is the Number of Generations Back
    X is the total Number of Ancestors in that Generation

    (25n – Year of Birth) = Gregorian Year of the Generation
    Lets say you were born in 1972

    1972 n=0 x=1 You
    1947 n=1 x=2 Parents
    1922 n=2 x=4 Grand Parents
    1897 n=3 x= 8 Grate Grand parents

    An so on and so forth

    10 generation ago = 25 x 10 = 250 years – 1972 = 1722 Gegorian Year
    210= 1024

    Generations Ago 10
    Year 1722
    No of Ancertors 1024

    Generations Ago 25
    Year 1347
    No Of ancertors 33,554,432

    Generations Ago 40
    Year 972
    No of Ancestors 1,099,511,627,776

    Generations Ago 79
    Year 3 BC
    No of Ancestors 604,462,909,807,314,587,353,088

    These figures are subject to a phenomenon called Repetition ie one person acting in more than one role, such as in an incestuous parentage which also is known to have taken place..

    They are the exact no of acts of Sexual Intercourse that gave rise to you.

    Of greatest significance is that, these figures demonstrate the fact that

    1) Luo had parents other than the Southern Sudanese as there are not enough of them to have made you.

    2) Nile valley Peoples of whatever Colour Creed or Race played a part in are part of the genetic fabric of the Luo.

    3) The peopling of North Africa (how human beings got to North Africa) also contains the story of how the Luo migrated back into Africa from Eurasia.

    4) Dholuo as spoken today is not their language but rather one amongst several they have spoken in the past.

    5) The East African Luo as Many as they may seem to be are actually the Minority there are More of you elsewhere… and for reason of adherence to Race (Black Africans) and language (Dholuo ) as a beacon to direct you to your beginnings you are unable to discern your relatives because you changed colour but your parents did not.

    Cassites and Elamites gave rise to you.

    Do not be derailed by your current race and look for your ancestors where they are not to be found.

    R1b V88 ( Muzungu ) Arian.

    Luo is from Iran.

  19. Tiyekidi

    ……Bounus……

    https://archive.org/stream/shortgrammarofsh00westrich#page/n0/mode/2up

    This is a Short Grammar of the Shilluk Language By Fr D Westermann Published in 1913 or thereabouts.

    Any similarities to a language you may know or maybe speak ?

    To me it appeared to be 85-90% Similar to Dholuo.

    How about Identity and beliefs in Juok of the owner of this language, are they the same as the Luo’s ?

    In Dholuo there is a Word – Chillo.

    Since the Chollo’s Languge and dholuo are mutually intelligible does it mean the same in Shilluk or Chollo, does this language even have this word. You may have to research beyond Fr Westermann’s book.

    If Shilluk language has this word and it means the same thing, then no problem,.. end of story that word has no other sinister connotations to them. But if a different word is used to describe what the Luo call by that word then you add 1 + 1 and remember not to forget to add the word Ja-Juok in to the same calculation.

    Then ask yourself, is Luo same as Shilluk and is Shilluk same as Luo ?

    This book gives a wonderful insight into the Dholuo language for those who may wish to explore further.

    For those of you who like myself who are curious about the Group of Luo’s that ( in antiquity) headed towards the west. May I humbly drop two names on your ears for your further investigation.

    1. Don Cheadle – Actor Hotel Rwanda.

    2. T.D . Jakes – Evangelist

    Find out about their African ancestry. It may be of interest to you and germaine to the discussion of where Luo are from, especially No 1’s.

    Enjoy your reading.

    God Bless you all.

  20. Wuod rwoth

    Ancestors of Luos migrated to Mesopotamia valley after Noah’s flood which took place on mega lake Chad. They were kingdom builders . These included Nimrod the great grandson of Noah. From the valley some of them migrated as far as Zagros Mountains and beyond. It is apparent that these Luo speaking race had a short stay at the foot of Zagros mountains. they left traces there among the people they stayed with who are currently called the Lur, the people of Lorestan.
    The Lurs have elevated frequency of YNDA Haplogroup R1b (especially of subclade R1bla2a-L23. The source of R1bla2a-L23 has not been defined by geneticists. But Ribla2a is from the part of Africa where ancient rulers of the Bible lived in the regions of Chad, Cameroon and Sudan
    Even if we relate the Luos to Elamites and Kessites there is no evidence that they originated from foot of Zagros mountains.
    The other fact is that Elamites and Kessites were of the same tribe because Kessite language was different from that of Elamites.. they only had close ties and Zagros was a contact zone between Kessites and Elamites.
    It is evident that Luos who are most likely to be linked with the Nafutians originated from Africa and had the skin colour of Nilo-Saharan like that of Noah,s descendants with a colour tone brick red to black. Therefore Luo does not have Euro-Asins (Muzungu). They only migrated from Africa to Middle-East and back.
    References
    1.Clyde Winters- Kushite Spread of Haplogroup R1-M173 from Africa to Europe
    2.Elamites and Kessites in Persian Gulf by D T Potts 9University of Sydney
    3.Luo origin of Civilisation by Dr. Terrence Okello Paito

  21. Tiyekidi

    Now where do we Start,,,,

    Here…..Help me out….Please

    Maiko

    Gudu

    Akira

    Alai

    Lango

    Denge

    Sibi

    Lawani

    Rege

    By the way these are surnames Borne by Luo individuals. They are not the usual O …. A Prefixed names … borne by the majority.

    Do you Know of any more ?

    Could you Kindly Post them here on this Forum …

    I there is something they demonstrate… the more the names the better the point is reinforced so please contribute.

    God Bless…

  22. Tiyekidi

    Now Google each of these names … see who else has the same name…

    On a map put a dot where both holders of the name are located… obviously one set of dots will be on the shores of Lake Victoria and the other….????

    So here we go..R U ready ?

    Alai Kenya

    Alai Persia- http://www.documentarist.com/mirza-hussein-khan-alai-persian-minister-1921-nov-15

    Akira Kenya

    Akira Iran – http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOPPS-UFC-AKIRA-CORASSANI-IRAN-BLOODLINES-NEW-TRADING-INSERT-CARD-BL-AC-SEE-/310532864873

    Sibi Kenya

    Sibi – Baluchistan (Border Iran/Pakistan) – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibi

    And so on and so forth… u can try with more names you may know

    They could come out on any part of this planet but it is very interesting that they all seem to emanate from the same general area. (Persia).

    Clearly there is a pattern that arises and repeats itself with these Names.

    So if these guys in Kenya are Luos then it only make sense that near the geographic location where these names cluster in Persia there should be a people with a name Luo or similar sounding.

    The Lur, in Iran become of great interest to this subject.

    Then Join the Dots …locations of the Lur and Luo… the people or places (with similar names to the luo individuals).. over a walkable land route…. with consideration to a ready source of food and water when crossing the desert… and a reason to proceed further south….the Nile comes in to sharp focus.

    Sinai Peninsula Middle East Iraq and Persia fall right along the path of the line joining the dots on your map.

    Tying back into all your tales, stories and folklore…

    Your ancestors are not Phantom, today as you read this post, they are located on a path stretching back from Lake Victoria to Persia,

    Every account on the Luo presence in all regions west of Persia, without exception, is transitive, a people on the move passing through and all of the Luo people along the way point to someplace beyond Egypt as their origin.

    And indeed it is only In Iran amongst the Lur you come across this conclusive account (of a person bearing the name Luo or similar sounding) of their Genesis.

    http://heim.ifi.uio.no/peyman/lur.html

    So, In the case of the Luo in Kenya, Genetics will not shed much light, the “founder effect” notwithstanding, the original migrant bloodlines may have all died out. In fact the Majority of the Luo who were tested were found to have Bantu Bloodlines…they are as Bantu as any of their Neighbours and exhibit no trace of exotic blood lineage…

    But what is interesting to us is that they have
    1. No history in the Congo forest or amongst other Bantus.
    2. Not enough Blood of the Southern Sudanese.
    3. Have a hell of story of a journey that took place that is corroborated by regional genetics and historical accounts of unrelated peoples.

    Therefore they maybe keepers of a culture and identity of the original migrants who have since died out.

    Like Christians, Not every Christian can demonstrate descendancy from Judea and there are several from different parts of the globe, each one being no less Christian than another.

    What we need to understand is that the Christianity came from Judea much as Luo Name came from Iran and by a Plethora of means such as migration of direct descendants, assimilation of neighbouring peoples and association of non related people such as the Suba,, this name found its way across mountains rivers and valleys to the shores of Lake Victoria.

    The names you carry as Luo, betray an association to specific geographic location in Persia.

    It is not only a chameleon that can change its colour.. human beings do it to,, it just the process and the timeframe in which they accomplish this feat that takes a little longer .

    The changes may be even more distinct than the little reptile is able to accomplish for itself and most importantly more profound than the Historians who wrote out history books were prepared to publish.

    There is no Magic to it…

    Try it yourself…

    Luo is from Iran.

  23. T.ben

    Greetings to all
    I find this discussion to be fascinating though it is an old post. I am an American researching ancient people, their modern day descendants and their possible biblical presence. Luo’s language is of great interest. They may have been among the groups that went out in ancient times. Could someone please answer a few questions I pose to give me a better understanding. This may help to show there is an established connection.

    For starters, what is the best meaning of the name Luo? I saw in a post that it means to some effect- follow or to follow. Is it accurate?

    Could someone tell me what does Narmer mean?

    Here are a list of words I would like to know
    Aor or awor
    Nuer
    Cush or Kush
    awoth
    Anuak or anyuak
    Amor or amer

    There is also a ethnic group called the merarit. If they have any relation to the luo or you know what their name means please explain.

    All answers will be highly appreciated. This discussion should continue on.

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