Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:53:36
Re: Vs. The Kenya We Want

Charles,

I do understand your point. But please just listen for a second. Kenya has been building democracy, and that is what have given even the voters hope of going in abundance to the voting box last year to express their views and mind. But what have they got, just a middle finger.

Mark me well I am not now talking about Kibaki or Raila. What I am saying is this: the president can come from any party since presidents are being elected by all voters. But the party which should form a government in any democratic state is the party with the majority of MPs in the parliament. Because it is the party expressing majority of voters. All over the world any government or state claimimg or actually understanding what democracy means, do things like that, that is what is called democracy. People should not keep on shouting this word called DEMOCRACY without knowing or understanding what it means. And even up to now I do not know where CHIEF JUSTICE WAKO is? WHERE ARE THE COURTS HE USED TO SHOUT FOR US TO GO TO? WHY CAN HE NOW TELL KIBAKI TO GO TO COURT IF HE KIBAKI AND PNU WANTS TO FORM THE GOVERNMENT AND THEY ARE NOT THE MAJORITY IN PARLIAMENT? Law should be followed and Kibaki plus PNU have broken the laws more than thieves or murderers in our Kenyan prisons today. Why should they be allowed to go free and spend tax payers’ money?

These people have been in the government now for over 5 years and claiming that they have developed Kenya to a good direction, while when they are sick or any member of their family is sick they fly them to be treated in England, Germany, USA, etc., while the common man can not even get a malaria tablet in a dispensary in Kenya. Don`t you see how they shake when Europeans or USA tells them that they will not get visas to Europe or USA? Why are they shaking? It is because all the money they have been stealing is invested in Europe or USA. These people are not investing all the tax payers money that they steal in Kenya. In fact, they are not patriotic at all, they are just some thieves, gangs, or robbers stealing Kenyan’s wealth. Who are these people? And should even Kikuyus support Kibaki, Karua, and Saitoti when Kikuyus are refugees in Uganda or living in tents in Kenya?

A president can be any Kenyan whom Kenyans want, and a goverment should be formed by a party with majority of MPs. If there is no majority party, then alliances are formed after the election. But on 27th. Dec. 2008, the Majority of Kenyans gave ODM party the mandate to rule and form a government and the so-called chief justice is not even talking about this. Why is he now silent. Things can be solved in a lot of ways. The most important point is to get to the goal, but I am afraid we Kenyans are getting nowhere this time.

Paul Nyandoto.

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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:30:23 
Subject: Re: The Kenya We Want

Nkuraya,

Kenya can have both president and a prime minister if the constitution is amended and they both follow the same law and same policy. What is happening in Kenya today is; there is no set law and non of our leaders follow the law. For example police should NOT tell any body that he/she is following orders from above. Nobody should order police to perform an illegal act on his/her favor. There has to be a stipulated law that is followed regardless of who is involved. I was in Kenya in 2006, there were no hawkers in Nairobi.  Go to Nairobi today. Hawkers are all over because Kibaki allowed them to come back during elections, are we going back wards or forward? Meanwhile, the shop owners are expected to pay tax and vat while somebody who is not paying taxes is selling their goods in front of the shops!!!
 
You cannot compare Al Gore and George Bush saga with the Kenyan one. Bush had to wait for supreme court to declare him the winner after which he was sworn in. Kibaki was sworn in even before Kivuitu announced the winner. Chief justice who is the custodian of Kenyan law already took sides by circumventing the law by swearing in Kibaki. Look what Uhuru did with councilors nominations by nominating more councilors than what he is allowed to nominate, is this the Kenya that we really want? Kenya is heading in to a big hole and it will take a long time to come out of that hole.
 
Ja Katweng’a
 

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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:51:27
Subject: Re: Vs The Kenya We Want  

Paul, I understand what you are saying. What I am trying to look is 20 years from now when there will be no Kibakis and no Railas. When we will have healed our wounds and the controversial election is long gone. Then the question arises do we want Kenya which moves in one direction with one leader one voice or Kenya which have many leaders many voices and therefore divided?

Paul, politicians being what they are they will never have the same view on anything.  Now imagine we have a President and a Prime Minister. The President is a Teso and the Prime Minister is a Oromo.  The President have a certain view and a certain policy at the same time the Prime Minister has different views and different policies. Now the Teso people decide to support the President and views and policies while the Oromo people decide to support the Prime Minister with his views and policies. Of course there would be violence. This violence would be so serious since the government will be split into two. The security forces would be split into two. It would be an internal war.

So, basically we would have a good election but still have total war within the government. You have to bear in mind the fact that Kenya has stayed stable and united for this long not because we had angels as leaders before but because we had one government, one leader one voice whether it was Moi or Kenyatta.

Another good example was US in 2000 when Al Gore emerged with more votes than Bush but fewer electoral college votes.  Nobody came forward and said for the sake of stability and nation reputation let share power. Let Al Gore be Prime Minister and Bush the President so that it can be a win win situation.  I think we ought to look at that and borrow a leaf from one of the oldest democracies we have.

Paul, remember the adage many cooks spoil the food.  I rest my case.

Nkuraya  

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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:49:16  
Subject: Re: Vs The Kenya We Want  

Charles what are you talking about?

A term for the president, even if he is a nightmare president, you want him to go on until his term is over or what? Any Kenyan doing poorly on any job is kicked out before his agreement time is finished whether he likes it or not. President Moi also did it for 24 years and he could have still do it if he was Kibaki, so do not cheat people. Again, all you have mentioned from no. 2 to 7 are directly or indirectly connected with the president you have already given the time he can steal people’s money until his time ends and after that you still can do nothing to him. Charles, do not think this forum is full with stupid people. This same Kibaki has given alot of things to the Chinese. We thought that when he was neglecting the west, we were going somewhere where we Kenyans can decide our future ourselves, we never knew he was just switching us from one master to another.

Kibaki and his party PNU have only 43 Mps, while ODM has 101.  So who should be the opposition according to you?

Please, if you do not want to build a better Kenya, just keep silent. You will soon see American army men patrollling streets of Nyeri and that is when you will realise that things are not that simple as you think.

Paul Nyandoto.

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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:29:12
Subject: The Kenya We Want  

The changes we need for a stable Kenya not only for the present but also for the future are few which are important:

1. A term limit for the Presidency(we already have that)
2. An independent electoral commission.
3. An independent Judiciary system.
4.  An independent parliament.
5.  A land Commission with implementation power.
6. A tribal clashes commission with power to punish.
7. Vetting of senior government position by parliament.

What we don’t need:

1. Power sharing ( what is the purpose of an election)
2. Prime Minister (a   position to divide people and waste money with little benefit to the common man)
3. A coalition government(what is democracy without  opposition)

All the above can be achieved by constitution amendments or by agreement by all stake holders.

Charles Nkuraya