Wanabidii

is kenya secure?

I ask this because Kenya Police and army are sleeping while our coast is roamed by terrorists hijacking ships some very close to our borders. We have the biggest and most advanced Navy in the region, why is General Kianga sleeping on the job?

We saw recently when Ugandan security forces crossed into Kenya and tried to arrest Kenyans inside the country. We saw South Sudanese militias kill Turkanas. We see Karamajongs being killed daily by roaming Ugandan forces. Ethiopian forces always cross the border to come and kill Kenyans.

We have seen the Kuria suffering in South Nyanza. The people in Mihuru and those bordering mara province of Tanzania are being arrested daily by Tanzanian security forces. Our own Chagga brothers are suffering through blatant disregard of their rights.

Is Kenya safe. Are Kenyans safe in Kenya? What is happening now with the nuns abducted in Elwak? Are they being raped? Are they being tortured? Why give ultimatums when people don’t honour our rights. Is kenya really safe for Kenyans?

Oketch

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:17:53 +0300 [11/21/2008 04:17:53 AM CST]
From: mike oketch
Subject: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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Try Prof. Saitoti, He issues ultimatums that are never honoured. He must be serious

—
Philip

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:27:58 -0800 [11/21/2008 04:27:58 AM CST]
From: Philip Owiti
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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Good question that deserves an answer…just to put some things in perspective some of these kidnapper as not sex thirsty the way we think. Cases of rape apparently is mostly recorded among kidnappers with non-islamic background.

Take care

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:27:42 +0300 [11/21/2008 04:27:42 AM CST]
From: Oduor Olande
Subject: RE: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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Guys

I was almost asking this also

Robert

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:32:03 +0300 [11/21/2008 04:32:03 AM CST]
From: Robert Alai
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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with too much of tribalism in those forces do you think they can really care,the hierachy of the forces are tribalised and its time we stop think of that diplomacy would help,lets unleash our might

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:15:48 +0300 [11/21/2008 05:15:48 AM CST]
From: paul kalepe
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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Mike from what you have written, it is clear Kenya is not secure. It then equally follows that its very very hard to bet on the awakeness of the generality…

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:18:40 -0800 [11/21/2008 05:18:40 AM CST]
From: joseph nyongesa
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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Sent by: otieno sungu
21/11/2008 05:19 PM
Subject Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

My brother Oketch,

You have never known that Kenya is a meek state that cowers in the face of smaller states in the region? Kenya is one of the most cowardly nations this side of the Equator and would rather massage the aggressors with delegations and peace missions. America for instance, will warn you what you will go through should you dare transgress in their country.

It will not compromise on the security of its citizens and would rather make enemies with allies than take aggression lying down. Now, Kenya is the exact opposite of that, they will molly coddle aggressors, whine and wring their hands as if we do not have an army.
Just look at how hollow George Saitoti sounds trying to warn aggressors …. I bet you they will do nothing even if those kidnapped are not returned. We could bet on this for real !!!!

But send the army to batter civilians and you will see how diligently they do it, with gusto, zeal, zest, enthusiasm ( is there another appropriate word I left out??). Cowards are flippant and gloss over when faced with their own match, give them some weakling and see the metarmophosis!!!!!

I know coutries like Andorra, Costa Rica,Dominica and Granada among others have no armies but they are safer than Kenya given they rely on other countries like America for their security, maybe it is time we asked Tanzania or Rwanda to protect us.

They are known not to take nonsense from neighbours.

Sungu.

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Well worded my brother. Couldn’t have said it better. Bit of caution though, despite your observance of the army being relinquished to retaliate or better yet, take control of the situation, you may want to know what consequences come out of this action.

Getting an african soldier out of the barracks is one thing. He’ll have control over a domain unimaginable to him for decades prior to his “release”. Getting him back is the obstacle. Thats why situations similar to DRC, Rwanda, Angola, Uganda, The Sudan, Burundi, Chad, Cote d’Ivoire etc. remain in limbo. Within confined quarters and in full control of superior officers, even the meekest gondi can be transformed into a teddy bear. Release him into combat and you’ll be surprised. I see this almost weekly.

Far be it for many folks on this forum to assume that our uniformed colleagues sit around sipping cocktails – but I must point out, what they conduct under cover of the secrets act, is much, much more than would meet the common eye. I for one have served (as a civilian) in war torn countries where they ask for our purpose on ground yet when we withdraw, they quickly call on the security council to bolster troops within the region. Much respect to the military personnel who undergo strenous tasks with no complaints or reverence to maintain sovereignity within our borders. Yet they get no commendation from the civillian popualtion at large. Hats off to you.

Please take this well. Don’t dare imagine or wish for the army to come out and take over. I’m no authority on this but look at Nigeria still reeling from the 1960’s biafra war. AND THEY HAVE OIL NO LESS! I dont want to be quoted in an I told you so forum in the future. You really, really don’t want a truly well trained army to take over the country. Trust me. There’s a reason they keep mum on everything. Believe me there is.

Ras.

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:34:22 +0200 [11/21/2008 03:34:22 PM CST]
From: Rashid Ambo
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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Brother Rashid,

What is the use of the under cover and covert operations to me as a Kenyan taxpayer when all that benefits other countries other than mine?Why should my taxes be used to secure other countries before I am safe?

Are you aware that Ugandan soldiers are running amok on Kenyan territorial waters in Lake Victoria, arresting Kenyans with abandon and torturing them? We are asking for an army that can oversee our security and above all, our soverienity, the one politicians always remind us about.

We are not asking them to take over leadership, but to protect us from aggressors, that is what we pay them for. Otheriwise, if we have to beg other nations agrressing on us, we can as well disband the army and be at the mercy of such countries.

All that hogwash about covert operations outside the country will only start making sense if it translates into secure borders within, not the porous ones that I know of; the ones any bandit can cross over and go on a killing spree, with Kenyans the favourite sporting animal.

C’mon Rashid, don’t join this vain winning and wringing of hands, Kenya for once has never arrested Ugandans in our waters, confiscated their fishing materials, hoisted its flag on Ugandan islands. Kenyan army has not transgressed and forrayed into foreign lands as if the owners of such lands are away on holiday!!!!

Stand up and ask to be protected, let not bandits, rogue countries and mercenaries rule your life just because “it is hard to return the army back to the barracks”!”

Ours I believe is a disciplined one and should go back when the job is done, that is, securing our borders.Otherwise, why should the bulk of my taxes go to them when my countrymen near the borders live each day at a time? Not sure when and where someone will strike next??

Sungu.

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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:12:56 -0800 [11/22/2008 02:12:56 AM CST]
From: otieno sungu
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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Bro Otieno,

As I mentioned earlier, it seems easier said than done. When I spoke of operations outside the country, I wasn’t referring to the KA. Merely as a Kenyan participant in the foray of activities within the immediate borders of our land. A few times in this forum, I’ve mentioned research as being useful. It clears the air before remarking on anything.

These bandits you mention, I’m not aware of neither are the mercenaries. My main point is not to let the armed forces out. It seems ludicrous as a bystander to see no action from the armed forces yet we spend billions training and arming them. They say still waters run deep. Take my word for it; its all I have to offer. Military intelligence forecasted and informed NSIS (read civilian police- key word is civilian) way before the clashes and the election violence occured but nothing was done to prevent things turning out as they did. The resources are there. Again I repeat, I’m no authority, but should events continue as they are now, well ..nuff said. A simple signature from the minister of defence and its curtains to the Kenya we speak so badly of.

Seems to me like we are crying out for war or anarchy. I for one know what that is and its effects on society at large. It may or may not be. The Peaceful nature of Ugandans and Rwandese came about after the atrocities they witnessed during their subsequent episodes. Its not timidity, just the callous nature of the human spirit formed after witnessing so many horrors. We may bray for blood and action in writing but are we really, truly ready to sacrifice our lives for the sake of the country and the dons controlling it? The border patrol is maintained by the administration and civilian police. The army, navy and air-force bolster their efforts once in a while “unofficially”.

Believe it or not, they do protect us from aggressors. It is only because they dont report to us publicly, that we question their efficay. Look in the eulogy pages and see for yourself.

Finally, Noone and I repeat noone can vouch for a soldiers discipline level when he has spent a decade and a half training to kill yet has never had a chance to prove his worth. Thats his job. Thats all he knows how to do. From the former Yugoslavia to the North Kivus, the story remains the same, unleash these killing machines at your own peril. Personally, I wouldn’t want Kenya to be discussed at the security council. We are the largest contributing nation in civilian personnel around the world amongst peace-keeping organisations. Ask Njoki Ndungu, she was embarassed when she tried lobbying for more Kenyans to be taken on board only to realise, we are the most and the best! Worldwide!

Kind Regards.

Abdul-Rashid Ambo
Log Ops Officer, Kisangani
195-2171, +243997068514
MONUC/DPKO

When we are liberated from our fears, our presence automatically liberates others

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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:46:59 +0200 [11/22/2008 10:46:59 AM CST]
From: Rashid Ambo
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?

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I rest my case Rashid,

If that is what it will take for Ugandan flags to fly on Kenyan soil. You have redefined soveriegnity for us and you seem an expert at it. I just thought no country has a right to come along and hoist their flag anywhere on our soil.

No one is asking for the unleashing of the army to fight, we have a navy, let them patrol our waters. Rashid, what do you make of the pirating of ships including one carrying our own important cargo recently and how does that borde for trade and our economy?

I never knew that securing our borders from external aggression is the work of administration and cilivian police as you mention even when aggression is obvious. As I grew up, I thought it was the armed forces, good to know it is otherwise from you.

Research or no research, I still believe deep down that excursions of solidiers from one country into another time and again like Ugandan have been doing on Kenyan waters in Lake Victoria should be met with a stern warning of the consequences.

However, you seem an authority in this and have done research on it, who are we to say otherwise. Research or no research, I know that fishermen from Kenya on Lake Victoria are suffering and I guess they may have to wait for more research to find out how best to help their current predicament.

I will fold my arms too and wait for the research findings!

Sungu.

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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:13:22 -0800 [11/22/2008 06:13:22 PM CST]
From: otieno sungu
Subject: Re: Is Kenya Secure? Is general Kianga awake?