From: Judy Miriga
Date: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:02 PM
Subject: The “Kindest Cut” So they Say
Folks,
This is totally and completely insane and an abuse of tradition and culture. I just wonder whatever got into this boys head. This is sexual organ abuse. It is taking some of our valuables and pride away from us. There is a way this organ completeness preserved The Luo Culture and Tradition. No one can understand unless the user of the equipment is consulted. That Clinic in Nyanza should be closed down with immediate effect since its motives are not genuine. It is up to no good. Furthermore it is operated by those who never had a chance to experience what it is to be whole.
The problem of Nyanza people and the reason to advancement of AIDs is as a result of poverty. To save Nyanza people, give them ways and means to food security and you will not see anyone with AIDs. Give them means to a healthy living and scourge of AID spread will be no more. Luos are hungry with no jobs. Translate that AID money to food money and create jobs with it, it will do Luos a great deal. There will be no more AID in Nyanza.
This Coalition Government should give Luos a breather. I am soon going balastic to complain and put up a case of Human Rights Abuse at the Hague. This sexual organ matter is not for one person to decide. Who knows what someone had put in the head of this young man? He may have done it under pressure or or caoxing. Any time a man makes such a decision, he should not it takes two to make a decision over this small human organ. I am just contemplating, this is must be some sort of some conspiracy.
It is a mockery and an Insult to the Luos to desplay themselves lying flat on the table as a Guinea Pig in the name of Poverty, to have their thing cut. There is nothing like “Kindest Cut”. Muraguri and Wanjiru are having a fields day, they are taking any possible chance to make a foolhardy on the Luos. Why would that boy have to display his thing for Muraguri and Wanjiru to make a show of? Ask yourself why a glaring camera? You young ones should also be careful what you go for. Check your history. Ask yourself, if it was soo bad, why Kikuyu Ladies ran to get married to Luo Men in droves? Something special is about the wholeness of the organ. Dont fool yourselves you young men out there………open your eyes wide and think deep. Luo women must begin to start owning part of their share and start talking. Make noise if you can. If you stay quite, ati you are playing gentle, the next thing the whole thing will not be there. Where will you go? Na utalilia nani?
I am just concerned why they are forcing this thing into the Luo Community. Last time the prisoners were forced to have a “Cut” and those must just be Luos. They will now round up Luo and put them in cells just to have them Cut. This is a serious crime. This thing must be a bad thing the reason why they are forcing Luos with it. And why must it be performed by a Kikuyu? What has Kikuyus have with Luos, wajameni? Nauliza kwa roho safi. Kibaya chajitembeza kizuri chajiuza. Just dont force it on Luos………how do we know those instruments used are not polluted, I am begining to have many queries in my mind. If it is not Museveni, it is Migingo, if it is not Migingo it is the Cut……what is all these. What is cooking? We want to know?
The young Kikuyu men are missing their women, they ran to go get married to Luo young men, they must skim and hatch a plan so their women go back to them. This is one of those plan.
I suggest that those with brains stay far far away from this trap. Make noise if someone is coming after your thing by force.
God Be with You all,
Judy Miriga
Diaspora Spokesperson
Executive Director
Confederation Council Foundation for Africa Inc.,
USA
http://socioeconomicforum50.blogspot.com
Writing about ‘cut’ led journalist to go for it
Posted Friday, September 4 2009 at 20:48
By NATION Correspondent
After writing an article on how male circumcision could reduce the spread of HIV, journalist Erick Otieno was so inspired he decided to go for it himself.
Otieno, 29, is one of the photojournalists featured in The Kindest Cut, a book and photo exhibition sponsored by Internews Kenya.
The project involved six print journalists who were given cameras and sent to Nyanza Province to report on voluntary male circumcision.
His brother
“I was not scared, no,” says Otieno, adding he has convinced his brother and several friends to follow his example.
Otieno, a reporter with The Kenya Times, says the session — a week of technical training and a field trip — helped him appreciate photography.
His project follows Francis Odiwo, 17, who decided to take up an offer of free circumcision for men in Nyanza.
The Luo community does not circumcise boys, so Odiwo had to convince his grandmother to let him do it.
The photo on the “Kindest Cut” invitation is of a sweat-drenched naked Odiwo with his back to the camera. The doctor is beside him, his surgical gloves covered in blood.
“I am feeling fine now,” he says, adding, recovery only took about a week.
When asked if he is uncomfortable that people are ogling the revealing pictures, he smiles and shrugs.“I’m glad,” he says, adding that he hopes they will help other men decide to go for the cut.
For every 1,000 men who volunteer to be circumcised, 250 new HIV infections are prevented, says Dr Nicholas Muraguri, director of Kenya’s National Aids and STD Control Programme.
The photographs and articles from the six journalists will also be posted on-line.
The Daily Nation’s Nakuru-based Wanjiru Macharia also participated.
[See these other prior discussions on the subject]
ONAGI KORO LOKRI ONG’ADI , Odundo jaKarateng’
AJUOGA OTUCH NI NYANGE TIEKO AYAKI, MIT YAWUOYI MA NYEMO WINJO! , Antipas Nyaore
HIV/AIDS AND CIRCUMCISION
My long experience with patients is that the tribes that are circumcised die of HIV/AIDS just as much as the ones who do not.
If the Uganda study found that 60% of circumcised men escape HIV/AIDS then what happens to the 40% who do not, therefore die of the disease despite being circumcised? What is killing the Uganda Bugisu en masse in contradistinction to the fact that they are circumcised?
Could one carry out a retrogade research in Kenya on those who have died with the disease, their circumcision status, tribe and see if the falacy on HIV/AIDS and circumcision is real or false?
For those who will naively join the happy-go-lucky lot of circumcised men who will be on a free ride after the act I can only say that the mouth of the grave is indeed very ugly! Go ahead!
It is thrilling to follow the masses but the masses will never follow you to your grave.
Could somebody somewhere check on the sterility of the circumciscion scalpels at that clinic. I would hate to think that the clinic’s main aim is to depopulate Luo Nyanza!!
This clinic could also be on an evil money spin exercise with total disregard to the Nyanza people-actively destroying us.
Beware when your arch enemy suddenly turn philanthropic.
DR ODIDA OKUTHE
— On Mon, 9/7/09, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
From: Odhiambo Washington
Subject: Re: The “Kindest Cut” so they Say
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 6:48 AM
@Judy,
While I see it as propaganda the relationship between circumcision and AIDS prevention, I think some matters are better let to rest, or attacked from an acceptable angle. Male circumcision leads to a level of hygiene so it should be encouraged for those who opt for it. However, I do not see how circumcision erodes the Luo culture – whatever that means! Isn’t everyone encouraged to maintain a high degree of cleanliness o their sexual organs – men and women alike – to prevent certain bacteria and diseases? Kwani, what has the foreskin to do with Luo culture? I am a Luo and don’t see a relationship in there. I’d like some Luo to educate me on that sort of relationship between sex and culture, so that we can have a constructive debate, but not a woman (no prejudice intended).
—
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
254733744121/ 254722743223
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“If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!.”
—
Lucky Dube
— On Mon, 9/7/09, Judy Miriga wrote:
From: Judy Miriga
Subject: Re: The “Kindest Cut” so they Say
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 7:37 AM
Odhiambo,
The same way you can open your mouth and brush your teeth to keep away germs and infection from breeding in the mouth, is the same way Luo Men should sanitarily keep themselves clean with the retention of the top cover layer (traditional custom and culture maintained no cut for Luo sons over the years). You do not have to cut your lips to remain “meno ngiri” exposed even to flies, to assume cleanliness and freshness. Luo Tradition and Customs did not require modern education to learn and maintain cleanliness with healthy standards. This equally preserved maintainance of moral aspects of healthy mind living. Human Beings were created by God to be superior to animals, so we cannot degress to animal kingdom lifestyle, unless we have lost all human morals to keep and maintain the standard of superiority as accorded by God. The Organ segment is part of what makes a man whole and holistic within the Spiritual Realms. Every orgarn of Human Kingdom has its purposeful intended use as according to creation.
With Love,
Regards,
Judy Miriga
Diaspora Spokesperson
Executive Director
Confederation Council Foundation for Africa Inc.,
USA
http://socioeconomicforum50.blogspot.com
— On Mon, 9/7/09, george omburo wrote:
From: george omburo
Subject: Re: The “Kindest Cut” so they Say
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 9:27 AM
YP, Judy, Odhis and others;
Please allow me this rare moment to comment on this Luo circumsicion thing being pushed by mainly politicians who have absolutely no qualification to do so-medically/scientifically or otherwise. The study they are quoting was the most useless study you can perform on cheap guine pigs with no proper controls, no statistical power (underpowered), duration of study was too short, randomization was flawed and not properly blinded, with desired endpoint predicated in advance. Also, long-term risk-benefit was not put into consideration. Yes, the cut will keep the tip of stick dry-and with time the friction with clothing will make the sensory cell on the surface of the tip covered by a dead-cells-to form a layer (just like the hand or feet). The consequences of which is lack of response to stimulation as one ages. The bottom-line: A luo man will go to his grave at any age with his stick still functioning in perfect condition. Most (if not all) “cut” men will loose functionality at a certain age due to lack on sensitive cells.
If you one keeps himself clean and makes sure where he puts his stick is clean, please KEEP YOUR FORESKIN AS YOU WILL NEED IT LATER IN LIFE-DO NOT CUT. Let the politicians cut themselves.
AIDS is transmitted whether you’re cut or not cut and politicians must stop fooling young people that a cut is a solution to AIDS epidemics, it has never been and will never be. Let them show us a proper study, and not un-properly cooked data.
Omburo
— On Mon, 9/7/09, Judy Miriga wrote:
From: Judy Miriga
Subject: Re: The “Kindest Cut” so they Say
date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 10:19 AM
Odhiambo,
You see, you see, dint I tell you, I told you, even from the mouth of the medical and learned professional, comes the coutionary statement…..donge ineno ka ne a nyisi adier. How did I know? I dont have to go to school for that. Wisdom is the best intelligence one should have to apply to situations and challenges around you as well as those that confront you at any one time. Anyone without wisdom will go astray and loose direction. Intelligence is the engineered moral force that guide Human Beings to make informative deeds. Dont go by peer pressure, it is easy to fall in an engineered trap. First ask why a situation is super-imposed on you, why the urgency of a surgery of the organ before considering the supply of basic needs like food and job opportunity first before rushing to attack the organ for a cut, and how you will benefit from it, what are the advantages and disadvantages.
After the surgery you need good food and fruits to recuperate, you have no job no food and Shs. 250 will take you no where. After the cut you stand a risk of getting sicker. Why the rush. This is a motivated factor with serious bad intentions folks. I maintain NO to the cut and I am ready to go to Hague. This is Human Rights Abuse.
Luo men have become an endengered species. Be careful. Ask yourself why Luo women are stuck to their men? Why do they keep the marriage for long? Ask yourself, why the sudden rush of Kikuyu women invading the Luo Men? It is not for nothing. Unless we respect such moral traditions and culture, the domestic marriage institution will become meaningless and irrelevant. Believe me Luo men’s feature are unique and special, and I dont need to ellaborate. Someone somewhere want to make them look ordinary or loose value. I am experienced and I am concerned.
Regards,
Judy Miriga
Diaspora Spokesperson
Executive Director
Confederation Council Foundation for Africa Inc.,
USA
http://socioeconomicforum50.blogspot.com
from Janet mafunga 11:36 am (6 hours ago)
date Sep 7, 2009 11:36 AM
subject Re: The “Kindest Cut” so they Say
LOL… You are selling our Luo men short my dear. Ati their women stick to them because of? And Kikuyu women are rushing to invade Luo men because they are uncut? I doubt my dear. Kikuyu ladies, as have ladies from other tribes have intermarried with so many other tribes so I would not say there is a mad rush for luo men because of their being uncircumcised.
I want to believe there is more to a Luo man than his manhood. I believe that they, like any other eligible men are intelligent, caring, loving and a lady would fall for the man himself and not his manhood. Unless there is something I am missing here. I am dating one.. and I know there is more to them and when I fell in love with him, I didnt think of his cut or uncut member. (especially coming from a community where circumcision is mandatory for our young men), what caught my eye was the person he was.
And men like women are all different. It can be cut or uncut but the man may not know how to pleasure a woman with it and vice versa. It is an individual thing.
It is an individual decision whether to go for the cut or not. The study shows that the infection prevalence with circumcised men is lower and (not zero prevalence) than that of those uncircumcised. How true that is, is yet to be seen. Up to April this year, I worked with one of those who advocated for male circumcision in HIV prevention. When the first report came back I remember being shocked and I remember asking her if she is sure she wanted to circulate it esp because the study was carried out among the Luos and Luhyas. I knew different. The luhyas go through the cut, but when you look at the HIV infection rates. they are quite high. At that time i had just lost 2 uncles within a week of each other to HIV. So… still not convinced.
From: george omburo
Date: Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: The “Kindest Cut” so they Say
Odhis:
Customs and traditions are areas I have no expertize on and I will not get drawn into.
I may only mention that times have changed, keeping traditions must also change and indeed some have also changed too; many have been abandoned like knocking of women’s front teeth; some are on their way-out like inheritance of widows based on culture and not on the woman’s choice; others are coming in partly due to modern practices; like sharing my fathers land with my married sisters-based on need rather than customs. Burying the dead behind and not in front of houses (which I hope will go further by moving to common graveyard for the entire clan). Many of these changes had little to do with government enforcement.
Should the government force some customary practices to be abandoned or introduced? Yes when extreme merits warrant it, but the cut is not any where close.
One example that fits my criteria is the FGM; simply on its merit less consequences-it’s a barbaric act that has out-lived its time. I just wish politicians could do more on this.
You ask me when you will need your foreskin!!!
Odhis; I can give many reasons; as protector, lubricant, moisturizer, sensory preserver, temperature sensor and physical protector and response modulator….simply, you need it all the time. When you reach old age (>65) you will thank your protective-sheath for your continued activity in the social arena-trust me on this.
Omburo
from Paul Nyandoto hide details 12:17 pm (6 hours ago)
date Sep 7, 2009 12:17 PM
subject Re: The “Kindest Cut” so they Say
Folks,
Sorry for joining this conversation about a luo man being cut out of ignorance. Which HIV-virus are these people trying to prevent by cutting the foreskin?.
– Is it the HIV/AIDS virus which can be contacted through saliver also?
– Is it the HIV/AIDS virus found in the seminal fluid?
-Is it the same HIV/AIDS virus being contacted through infected blood transfussion?
-Is it the same HIV/AIDS virus which a mother can transfer to a child while still in the womb?.
-Is it the same HIV/AIDS virus being transmitted through sex or not?.
Being a luo, I do feel very much abused when my tribe is used as animals by those who do think that they know while they know very little. Why can`t these same people think why a luo man or woman have almost the largest number of jobless at a time when their tribes man is the prime minister or the one sharing 50% power with the top central man. Why are luo children sitting home because of lack of school fees or poor schools?. In luo Nyanza there are a lot of things that should be done to create an HIV/AIDS free zone and are not being done at the moment. Let them give people jobs, factories if they can not build industries, let them give agricultural material for farming to help the constant poverty facing luo nyanza since 1963 upto today. By the way advanced countries like Finland, Sweden or Norway circumcision is illegal and are not allowed to be done . Some europeans who have read about the luo circumcision are just laughing at us. Some are asking if the year 2009 is also the same year in Kenya luo nyanza today or luos are 20- 30 years behind the knowledge people have accumulated on HIV/AIDS disease.
I just hope that once in a life time luo nyanza politicians should do the right thing at the right time to save luo nyanza. Cutting a luo man`s foreskin is not the right answer. Finland is having the lowest HIV/AIDS cases in the world and they do not cut their foreskin, so how have they managed it?.
Paul Nyandoto
I read all the above with great sadness.
It is such ideologies that are consuming the luo community…we need to be objective and look at the facts. Nyanza has the highest HIV prevalence rate in the country..and the HIV pandemic continues to plague Africa largely because cultural practices continue to take precedence over good sense and logic. Refusal to acknowledge the facts does us no good!
Claiming that circumcision (at 15% and rising..) goes against your culture (after acquiring education and knowledge of its benefits) is a great paradox because if you cling to such ideology, more lives will be lost and there will be no more ‘culture’ to uphold/protect. there will be no ‘luo culture’ without luos!
Stop this SUICIDE! Fight AIDS with all the weaponry you can get.
Be faithful and encourage fidelity in your community, use condoms, circumcise, abolish wife inheritance, acknowledge the existence of HIV/AIDS, use medical science as an ally, not an enemy, embrace development.
HIV/AIDS cannot be looked at through the narrow lens of circumcision alone!
Use every weapon in your arsenal! Unfortunately for Africa, economic empowerment is not at our grasp. However, we have at our disposal (as human beings), self-control, faithfulness, industry, commitment, hard work and persistence and simple things like circumcision, education on sti’s etc.
I don’t hear anyone claiming that they will not sterilise/boil drinking water because it goes against the ‘luo culture’. Protect your life!
For a long time during the industrial age and before the advent of penicillin, scientists tried in vain to convince people that microorganisms were responsible for disease…..Many people died and attributed it to witchcraft and such other cultural ideologies, life expectancy was at an all-time low of 33 years. It has taken a whole century to convince some people…..because of ‘adherence to cultural beliefs’. There are a few who took heed….and got ahead of the rest; they embraced hygiene, boiled water, lived long enough to benefit from education, became more economically productive and became wealthy….so much so that they were able to pass on their knowledge to their children and sustain future generations.
kenya is still a young society, we have the benefit of having examples to emulate. Let us not make the same mistakes other societies made…they didn’t know better…we know better; we have history to learn from.
Luos, don’t be left behind!
Be wise!