Now i know not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is arguable that most terrorists are Muslims. From what Islamic scholars always say, Islam is a religion of peace. So why is it when there are terrorists, they always say their ways are supported by their religion, and therefore labeled Muslim extremists? You never hear of Christian extremists or Atheist extremists.
The next question, what are Islamic scholars doing to counter the negative PR earned to the religion by terrorists? Some wonder why Islam popularity is dwindling, yet the answer is right in the news headlines, “terrorism.”
Yesterday we heard the latest victim of Muslim terrorist . He was deported to Tanzania by Kenyan Government since all the other airlines of the world refused to accept him in their planes.
Boni (Kajulah!)
Hi Boniface
There is absolutely no truth in what you are implying that most Muslims are terrorists. The truth is that Muslims are, have been most affected by terrorism more than any other community. It is the Western media which has spread this propaganda, and it is unfortunate that many people, including yourself have swallowed this, without any question.
Today, everyone talks of 911 as the biggest terrorist event in history, but no one mentions of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki genocide by a Christian nation, the United States, which left hundreds of thousands dead, and whose scars continued up to this day to torment the Japanese.
The annihilation of the Jews by Hitler is also seldom mentioned. Even the Pope of the day didn’t come out to condemn this barbaric act, simply because those who perpetuated this were Christians.
Next door in Uganda, the Lords Resistance Army carried acts of brutality against innocent people, cutting of their lips, noses and chopping of hands. Young girls were abducted from schools and turned into sex slaves. Yet this same group was openly advocating for a puritarian Christian rule, based on the Ten Commandments.
In Ireland, The IRA, a catholic movement carried out scores of bomb attacks against its protestant enemies in London and other parts of the UK for several years, killing scores of innocent people.
It is noteworthy to mention that while the IRA was carrying out this killing sprees, it was a legal organization in the US and it was allowed to carry out fundraising activities to finance its military (terrorist) operations in the UK.
Timothy McVeigh, who was convicted of carrying out the devastating Oklahoma bombing in the US, which led to nearly 200 people dead, did that in revenge for a federal attack against the Davidian cult-a SDA sect two yeas earlier.
Just a few years ago, in Bosnia, Serb Christians carried out some of the worst massacre ever witnessed in Europe, with the sole purpose of annihilating Muslims, but no terrorism connection was established to those who perpetrated the massacre.
Many examples abound, but what is common in all these cases is that they are considered terrorist attacks, and are not linked to Christianity.
In Palestine, Jews who are mainly Caucasians, who have no ancestral claim on Palestine, have been given the license to brutalize and kill Palestinians in their own land at will, and we have never heard them being referred to as terrorists or extremists. But a Palestinian child fighting for freedom of his land and dignity of his people is quickly labeled a terrorist.
In India, Hindus continually massacre Muslims. In China, there is an official policy to suppress Muslims in Xianjing, but in all these cases, those perpetuating these crimes are exonerated.
During the reign of Saddam, Iraq was among the most peaceful countries in the Middle East, till George Bush’s invasion transformed in into the most dangerous place on earth. During Saddam’s time, the phenomenon of Suicide bombing was never known. Now it is a daily occurrence.
More than a million innocent Iraqis have been killed by the United States and its allies in Iraq, and no one is mentioning about these atrocities.
In Afghanistan, without any proof that the 911 attacks were carried out from the country, the US went on to carry out attacks in the country, killing hundreds of thousands of people, a number far greater than the 911 victims.
Now and then, we hear missile attacks by US drones which kill innocent civilians, and not even an apology comes forth from Obama.
To the United States and the Western Media, the value of a Muslim blood is worthless and does not deserve any mention. It is unfortunate that some of us have been brainwashed and are joining this bandwangon. Even church leaders have also gone ahead to forsake their ideals and kept mum in the face of these horrendous acts, simply because the victims are Muslims!
Abu Ayman
Abu,
Happy new year! Why would the western media urge Pakistanis to bomb themselves everyday? Iraq, Somali, Why are the factions in these countries bombing themselves out of existence?
For me I will equate ‘terrorism’ to the fact that these guys have not embraced democracy and peace, and are so obsessed with killing one another, just to prove they are superior.
There is a big difference with countries muscling it out in an officially declared war and outrightly going at each other’s throat. These guys on the contrary hide among the people. So the cases of Hiroshima and Hitler do not prove your point sir. The LRA are a rebel group, openly known to the government and have uniforms and guns.
Whereas the points you have raised have some weight, it is still unacceptable to go around killing your own people in the magnitude we see in Pakistan (which has never been raided by the US) and Iraq. Iran is just a case of the western media (maybe) informing the people they can be governed better. Ireland and other cases had clear objectives which have been met and the atrocities stopped.
It is the extreme radical(ism) we see in the middle east that led to this word terrorism. I am happy our Muslim brothers in Kenya have not embraced such; and I hope they will not.
Peace.
Hi Bwana felix
If you can remember, in 2006 Somalia attained normality and peace under the administration of the Union of Islamic Courts. This was after numerous previous attempts to bring about peace through democracy and other means had all failed.
The Kenyan government even recognized this fete and accorded Sheikh Sharrif Ahmed, the then UIC leader, a red carpet treatment when he visited the country.
Instead of supporting this initiative, the so-called International community quickly turned against the new administration, simply because they had embraced Islamic rule.
Kenya, which initially supported the UIC govt, was bought to join the US-Ethiopian axis of evil, to topple the peaceful regime, and handed it to warlords and criminals, who have been responsible for the anarchy, which Somalis have experienced in the last two decades. These criminals are still being supported financially and militarily, and it is not a surprise that the country is descending further into civil strife.
On Pakistan, for your information some of the bomb attacks have been blamed on the United States, which is using them to discredit the Islamic opposition to the US fronted Pakistan govt. At the same time, more Pakistanis are being killed by US drone attacks, which still continue, even after protests from the Pakistan govt. The same is happening in Afghanistan.
In a nutshell, as i stated, the US is responsible for the shedding of Muslim blood in various countries.
It is true that in some countries, Muslims have taken up arms, but this is being done against despotic and dictatorial regimes, which are being prodded by the US to serve its interests. This is exactly what the likes of Kenyatta and Nelson Mandela did.
The democracy which you are talking about only exists on paper, as the US will never allow a popular administration to come to power, if it refused to tow its line. Algeria and Hamas in Palestine are clear examples. At the same time, the US will not allow democracy to prevail in many of the Arab countries, as it is sure they will all be uprooted in a fair election, and replaced by parties with an Islamic agenda.
For your information, Islam is against the killing of an innocent person, and the Quran clearly states that whoever does this, it is akin to the killing of the whole of mankind.
It is also important that all the root causes of so-called terrorism; those carried out by Muslims and non-Muslims, be addressed. Evading this, as the US and other countries are doing, will only create more terrorists, and even high tech scanners at airports will never solve the problem, as ingenious people will also come up with ingenious methods to beat the system.
Abu Ayman
Abu,
You may use a thousand pages to explain why, in many instances, Islam will be related to terrorism, but I can assure you that you will fail. Why?
1. Many Muslims have allowed themselves to be misused by terror Gangs in their midst. These Gangs have planted discord in the minds of the adherents, while misguiding their people that they are fighting for a religious cause. Therefore any small disagreement with a person of this faith is viewed to be anti Islam, and for that, a Religious war can be declared on the spot. I do not believe that this is what Islam and the Koran advises the Muslims to follow.
2. The international media is Biased and influenced by a certain group of people who has a certain agenda. This group of people do not necessarily see the need to promote Islam. Therefore any small negativity about Islam will be viewed as hostile or terror oriented.
3. The Media, in the recent past has shown some very disturbing news where “Mass murder” is viewed as justifiable and in some instances celebrated by a section of Muslim adherents. I think this is very wrong, as it seriously complicates matters for other MUSLIMS, who may be genuinely oppressed and need their freedom. A case in hand is Palestinians and Uighur people in China.
Now, Majority of these people would like to live in peace, just like the rest of other people in the world. Yet when a few extremists hijack the whole process of freedom fight, and selfishly attack and kill others, who have little or no idea at all on the struggle, then it becomes worrisome. Sooner, those who control the media will use that to explain to the world why it is dangerous to let the Palestinians gain their freedom, or the Uighur to live freely. You may not agree with this but, the Media controllers will be justified in their actions.
So, what is the way forward? I think the way forward is for the peace loving Muslims to come out and stop those who are Hijacking Islam, and using it in a negative way.
What is also surprising is that there is enough engineering skills for a territory like Palestinia. I keep on imagining what would happen if those skills were turned around and focused on developing the territory? The same goes for a country like Iran. I try to imagine what would happen if all those billions of those Rials and manpower for building Nuclear warhead was to be redirected on improving agriculture, housing and highways. Don’t you think Iran would be a far better place than DUBAI? Just a thought.
Solution.
Peace loving Muslims must come out in their millions to say no to those who are hijacking the religion for their selfish plans. Let the people say that they need peace, so that they can force their governments to, redirect their efforts in solving issues that affect the people. Jihad-ism is not a process to solve people’s problems. There is no war that brings development. War only causes destruction.
K’Onyiego
Jagem K’Onyiego,
It is because most people are ignorant of history that they make flagrant and unsubstantiated statements, and you fall into that category.
1. There is no group in the world that is using terrorism to convert anybody to Islam.
2. All the so-called terrorists have a link somewhere to the West: Osama was trained and equipped by the West. And even the latest suicide bombers have originated from the West. Maybe there is something in the West that infects people’s mind. Even the Nigeria guy lived in the UK, The suicide bomber who killed 8 in Khost province in Afghanistan two weeks ago was a CIA informant, the alleged bomber who killed 3 Somali government Ministers lived in the West, the Yemeni group that is now fighting their government are led by guys who lived in the West or former Guantanamo detainees.
3. It is the Americans and Europeans who seem to celebrate mass murder than Muslims do. How can you explain that Israel killed 1350 Palestinians and lost 13 soldiers in the War on Gaza, and Americans refused even investigation into this incident? Read this link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/uk-troops-executed-iraqi-grandmother-1863887.html
4. There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, and there are few hundreds who are actively waging war against the West, the rest are minding their own business. The West and its media can rave and rant but there is no large-scale Muslim involvement in terrorism.
5. The central issue on these wars are just political. Religion is just an effective mobilization tool that proponents use to garner support. They can be accused of hijacking a religion, but everyone has been doing so. Imagine the billionaire evangelical preachers have hijacked a religion for monetary gain, the doomsday cult have done the same and every other charlatan uses God’s religion for his own purpose.
Muslims are becoming irritants to the West because they seem to ignore the whole noise, neither supporting nor condemning the actions of these groups. The actions of these groups have to be understood in context and the underlying issues resolved. If the political issues leading to extremism are ignored, then the motivation for these wars will still be there, and no amount of raving or raging will stop them.
Those are my two cents worth.
Sheikh,
I bet time has come for all of us to face facts as they are.
If a Christian is a known terrorist and preachers hatred wherever he goes, I will not support him whatsoever despite my being a Christian. The same should go for a Muslim.
We must all say no to terrorism and terrorists in our midst.
But it becomes sad when a Muslim Cleric mounts the podium in defense of Al Faisal, and tells us that Muslims are taking over Kenya in 20 years time. He was captured live on TV and sad as it was, I have waited in vain to hear any clarifications or protests from Muslims that the man was speaking for himself.
It basically confirms what we have been saying all along; the craze by which Muslims are buying prime property in Kenya and the rate by which Muslim women are giving birth twice a year yearly.
Kenyans better wake up. We are headed in the wrong direction.
Oto
Hii debate haisaidii. Mutangombana mpaka kiama.
Yemen is now the new frontier. Sheikh Al-awlaki living somewhere in Yemen has now replaced Osama as the main villain in the war against terror. Incidentally, the Sheikh is an American of Yemeni origin. Al-Jazeera today reported he is on the run somewhere in the Mountains of Yemen. His father was shown in the same clip sadly lamenting the fate that has befallen his beloved son. As parents and future parents, let us remember that some individual actions and their aftermath, however justified, bring more pain to family members than anybody else.
All who are contributing to this debate have certain merits in what they say, but I hasten to add that we are all pawns in a deadly international conspiracy that both Muslims and Christians cannot authoritatively comment on. We can only speculate, albeit for some of us, with bigotry and bravado. Unfortunately, and I sincerely pray not – we might soon witness the slide of Yemen into choreographed anarchy, widening the lawlessness on both shores of the Red Sea.
This begs the question of the Jamaican Sheikh Al-Faisal. How come he is now conveniently stuck in Kenya?. How come some of the countries who allowed him to transit into Kenya have now denied him passage back to Jamaica. Is this an attempt to besmirch Kenyan Muslims, millions who are not only law abiding, but live harmoniously with their non Muslim neighbours, business partners and work colleagues.
To bring this unfortunate episode to a close, I appeal to the Kenya government to charter a plane and fly Sheikh Faisal back to Jamaica. An Humanitarian organisation can be found to foot the bill. At the same time, Hon Kajwang and the Ministry of Immigration should refrain from using excuses on Border entry points computer malfunctions et al. This is an example of an unfortunate systemic failure on the side of Kenya security agencies.
In closing many Kenyans, including Muslims had never heard of Sheikh Faisal until now.
Abdulattif Shaban
SUPKEM
Abdullatif,
You have come out very clear, and this is what we want. We need Muslim Clerics to come out and condemn their colleague who said that they are taking Kenya in 20 years.
Let us condemn evil at whatever cost. We must not seek shelter in our religion and make pronouncements that will create animosity.
The Cleric who said that Muslims are taking over Kenya in 20 years ought to be rebuked by all. Those were very serious and divisive sentiments that must be condemned by all. We all belong here and the case of taking over does not arise. We must all live in peace and in brotherhood as we have been living all along.
We must not preach hatred and religious supremacy to our people. We must preach Peace, National Healing and Reconciliation, so that as our kids grow up, they all become proud of Kenya their motherland.
It seems like we have real short memories of what this kind of outbursts can do to our country.
Peace and blessings.
Oto
Oketch,
I absolutely agree with you brother. Christians wake up. It’s time to pray and act at the same time, because Muslims are not playing games. They mean business, and if we don’t watch out they will take over Kenya in 20 years.
They are smart, and they know all they need is economic and religion empowerment to take over Kenya.
This is why they are heavily investing and pushing for Kadhi’s courts system in our country.
We need to move into action, and do whatever is necessary to stop them. Let’s throw our support to our bishops and clergies, who are constantly fighting for Christians rights in constitution and the country generally.
We should never allow any constitution with Kadhi’s court in it no matter how good the language sounds.
We should never vote in any leader who supports or looks like can be easily compromised by the Muslims.
Kenyans wake up otherwise we will pay with our lives soon or later.
Frank
“Jagem K’Onyiego,
It is because most people are ignorant of history that they make flagrant and unsubstantiated statements, and you fall into that category.
1. There is no group in the world that is using terrorism to convert anybody to Islam.
2. All the so-called terrorists have a link somewhere to the West: Osama was trained and equipped by the West. And even the latest suicide bombers have originated from the West.”
Salah,
Let me clarify a few points here. I have copied and pasted the beginning of your response to make my point:
1. You have suggested that I am ignorant just as many other people. That may be so, but you have gone ahead and given a chronology of the people or groups of people, who have visited terror on innocent people, non-Muslims and Muslims, through out the world. From your analogy, are you not saying that these people, whom others refer to as Terrorists, are being used by some selfish people to do these acts? If so, are you not agreeing with what I said that Muslims are allowing terror Gangs in their midst , and as such the peace loving Muslims must come out to condemn them and get them out of their midst.
2. You have come out with a theory that there is no group in the world that is using terrorism to convert anybody to Islam!
Well I never knew this is what they are doing, neither did I say anything of that sort. My concern is that these Terror Gangs are pitching tent in the midst of Muslims and then cowardly hiding behind religion to terrorize people on the pretext that their actions are in defense of Islam. I do not agree with this.. Islam is a peaceful religion. The Qur’an Karim teaches you to coexist peacefully with your neighbors. But it also advises you as to what time to take arms to defend it.
Unfortunately what the extremist(terror gangs) have done in countries like Egypt, Somali, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Sudan and many other countries is far from what the Religion is all about. There are times to declare Fatwa and times to declare Jihad, But you cannot declare it just because I disagreed with you on principle. But if I come and molest you or kill a number of Muslims purely because they are Muslims then there will be every right to declare a holy war.
3. If , according to you, all terrorists have had links with west in the past, I need to ask you this ; “why then, are they allowing themselves to be used by the west? Cant you see we are going back to my point that Muslims have allowed Terror Gangs to live in their midst. Therefore Peace loving Muslims must come out to reject this! When Sunnis kill Shiites, is it the Buddhist, Hindus or Christians who die? I’ve been fooling myself that, it is Muslims who die. If so, why would Muslims be killing other Muslims, if at all they are doing it in defense of Islam?
If you still believe that I am ignorant of history then I may wonna say that you are not amongst those Peace loving Muslims. Who knows, you may be enjoying seeing heinous acts visited on those who are seeking peace, yet you would wonna blame it on the west.
Have a peaceful day Sheikh.
K’Onyiego
Hi,
I have been think about this for sometime. How is terrorism and piracy only linked to people from one religion? What does this religion teach and what do they believe in? what do you think makes people from this religious group act in the way they do?
Please if there are any sociologist/anthropologist or a specialist in religious studies in th forum to please help me understand these people. Any theories (that can stand the test of time) to help me/us understand this.
Please let no one respond to my humble and honest question with emotions. NO EMOTIONS HERE!
Kind regards,
Rhoune Willis
Rhoune,
The bases of your questions below are as fallacious as they are erroneous, which makes the questions impossible to answer. It is not true that terrorism and piracy are linked to people from one religion. The problem is that religion tends to be very dogmatic, and we Christians (even the hypocritical ones) want to create the impression that ours is a better religion by demonizing another (Islam). There are good Christians and criminal ones. There are good Muslims and criminal ones. The criminality of a follower of a faith, even when such a follower invokes their religion in their crime, has nothing to do with the tenets of that faith. Let’s look at Abdulmutallab’s criminal actions as those of Abdulmutallab, not of Islam. I’ll illustrate my point with examples.
When we had post election violence in Kenya, no one blamed Christianity, the religion that produced most of the protagonists. Instead, in our obsession with dividing people we shifted to the tribe. If you ask me, the worst terrorist organization that the world has witnessed, it is the Irish Republic Army (IRA). Yet even as the West blacklisted them as a terrorist organization, no one referred to them as Catholics or Christians. They were just IRA.
We never attributed a religion to Cambodia’s Khmer Rouge under Pol Pot, whose mass massacre of its own people has been classified by some observers as genocide. Declared Christian religious agenda of Kony’s Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda never comes up in any discourse on this certified terrorist movement. We have never introduced religion in what happened in Checkoslovakia, Rwanda, Liberia, Apartheid South Africa or currently DRC. Yet as soon Darfur happens, it is Islam.
The most successful individual terrorist has been the Unabomber (Theodore John Kaczynski). We know him just as the “Unabomber.” He has never been referred to by his religious affiliation. Timothy McVeigh, who leveled the Oklahoma Federal Building in Oklahoma City and killed hundreds of people, including little children, has never been referred to by his Christian religion.
Should all these be sounding foreign to most of us, how about our own Kisii Educated Boys and Girls Organization (KEBAGO) (I understand they’ve now been succeeded by Chinkororo), Baghdad Boys, Taliban, Kosovo Jeshi la Mzee and Angola-Msumbiji of my own home? How come we have never associated any of these organizations, most of which have been officially defined as terrorist, with their Christian faith?
Why is it that in OUR Christian eyes, it is only when criminal activity involves a Muslim that religion becomes a factor in the crime, and we seem to actually convince ourselves that it is? It is this kind of stereotyping, prejudice and bigotry that widens the schism between the two religions and worsens the relationship between them when they should really be excellent.
I recommend that Christians who are open minded and genuinely want to know more about Islam as a religion pay more attention to the objective contributions of My Kuria Mwangi, Edwin Owino and other such Christians.
As for piracy, if you had just read a little bit about it or talk to any seafairer you’d immediately have discovered that it did not start with Somali Muslim pirates, but rather has been a worldwide phenomenon spanning all oceans and seas of the world since time immemorial. Christians involved in this debate don’t like being presented with the kind of facts above that debunk their obsession with Muslim terrorism, and usually just keep quiet when they read these facts that we all know or ought to know.
AM
AM
You have done good research but are forgetting one fundamental thing, if I am not wrong “NON” of the groups you mentioned EXPRESSLY said we are killing “in the name of some christian god”, whereas evidence is crystal clear that the ones you are defending have pronounced a specific god of the faith they represent. That is fact the whole world knows.
By this I do not criminalize some among the Islam faith who have not threatened even a rat, but choose to look the other way, as opposed to the tenets of faith that bides them.
The thing is, checkout the basic principles that guides the two faiths and choose today which “god” you will fight for in defending the faith or which God will fight for you and on your behalf
Shalom!
Thanx alot bwana angaluki for your commentary. You drove the pint home.
I wish my Christian brothers could be objective and discard the prejudice they have held against Islam and Muslims. I would appeal to my Christian compatriots to study the teachings of Islam from Muslim sources, and they will find out that indeed, Islam is a religion which safeguards and protects the life of every individual, regardless of religious affiliation.
All acts of killing the innocent are strongly condemned by the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
Any Muslim who deliberately kills or justifies the killing of an innocent soul has no place on Islam.
Abu Ayman
Maybe it’s time to dig deep and find out when the word terrorism as an act was first applied, by whom and for what reason?
If it’s always been by Muslims, then I’d say they found a way to coax the world into meeting their evil demands. Violence is not the only way to resolve issues.
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Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
254733744121/ 254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
“If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!.”
— Lucky Dube
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We were taught in school that Islam was forced on non Muslims by the sword. Either you accepted Islam or you were killed.
If you read from Genesis chapter 16 verse 7, it says, “the Angel of the Lord said to Hagar, the Lord will give you so many descendants that no one will be able to count them. You are going to have a son, and you will name him Ishmael. But your son will live like a donkey, he will be against everyone, and everyone will be against him.”
In Genesis chapter 21 verse 17 God told Hagar, ” I will make a great nation out of his descendants”.
It is said that Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham. That is why the hatred between them and descendants of Isaac will never end. It is biblical. Nobody can change what God had planned. God knows why he blessed them with wealth and evil at the same time
Hi All,
I did not hear the preacher say that Muslims are taking over Kenya in 20 years but I am just wondering did he say Muslims will invade from another planet or they will reproduce and multiply like everyone else? Are you telling us that Muslims should not reproduce and fill the earth like the Bible ordered?
I am failing to see the point of the inciting attitude, quoting people out of context, creating unnecessary tension, all for a preacher saying that Muslims may become a majority in this country in 20 years.
By the way, we accepted to live in a country with a Christian majority without fuss for all our life, are you telling us that we cannot aspire to become majority in Kenya? Is it criminal for Muslims to want to become the president of this country? What scares you and does not scare me? What makes you superior to me?
It is not criminal for Muslims to want to become a majority in any country and this desire does not threaten anyone’s rights in any way. Muslims have been good citizens of Kenya since independence and have never committed an organized unpatriotic act against Kenya.
It is a known fact, supported by statistics that Islam is the fastest religion in the world and Muslims form 56% of African population. The desire to be a majority in Kenya is therefore not a far-fetched idea, and at the time of the preacher saying this, prompted by the inhumane treatment Muslim preachers have been facing the last few years. Over 100 Muslim preachers have been deported from Kenya since 2002. It seems to many people that the authorities in Kenya are at war with Islam and want to actively curtail the spread of Islam in Kenya.
The preacher has not said that Muslims will clone people, import them, invade the country from mars (Where I heard that there is a significant alien population professing the Muslim faith) or pretend to be a majority. He said that by natural system of boy loves girl, takes her to the movies, proposes to her at a candle lit dinner and there is a wedding and people are happy, then they produce twins who look alike and then two others and the same is repeated by the boy with another woman and this leads to one man producing 23 children like my grandfather did, and in the end …. then Muslim clan becomes a majority.
If anybody is offended by Muslim boy loving girl and having children, then that is misplaced concern, it is called xenophobia, it is a crime under international law. If otherwise, gives us 20 years and please keep off our love life!!!
Over to you!!!
Salah Sheikh,
Am sure you are trying the politicians stunt of denying what is in the open. It was in the news my friend. And good luck to them. What am not sure about is if we sometimes cannot tolerate each other as the majority, I wonder if we will have time for some nonsense like those being preached at Jamia on Fridays.
Felix Otiato,
Can you tell us “what nonsense they preach at Jamia on Fridays?”.
I think you have just committed a hate crime against a group of people who have never done anything to you.
If you think the Christians have a right to being a majority in Kenya, then there is only one stand that will come out from you clearly, “We either have Kenya divided or we have it destroyed”.
Good luck to you.
Salah
Allow me to add my voice to this debate that is extremely volatile. I just wish to remind Christians that matters of religion will always be replete with dogma and that shows very clearly in some threads on this. I work with Muslims and have done so and lived with them for more than 10 years.
I want to disagree with Christians in Kenya for their narrow prism of geopolitical and religious issues. Just like Christianity is full of western traditions, Islam has also suffered from Arabization and some things Christian and Muslim are actually Western/Arabic traditions. Violence is the stuff of both religions. What we are condemning Muslims for is what Christians did in the days of the crusades, the age of the guillotine etc. It is what good Christians are doing in Belfast, Ireland. The mafia are actually Christians. What makes their terrorism sanitized is the media which is controlled by its sympathizers.
People are saying Muslims are taking over Kenya; and why not? When we have a country in which there are no irreducible minimums, no nationalism or patriotism. Did you know that we have left all our borders to be controlled by Somali entrepreneurs? And all our immigration workers collude with these traders to circumvent the legal process. Be it Namanga, Lunga lunga, name any Kenyan border that is not controlled by these people! So why complain about their taking over when you have left them to control your entry points?
On this preacher we are fighting someone else’s battle. If America has a problem with the preacher, does Kenya also have a problem? What is our theory of state, to follow what America says? We as a country once allowed two Armenians, we even gave them police badges and a big house to terrorize Kenyans with tacit approval from the Presidents family. How does this compare to this preacher?
Tanzania next door has more Muslims than we do, and they co-exist very well. They have had two Muslim presidents, Hassan Mwinyi and now Jakaya Kikwete, in between Christians. Can Kenya do the same?
When Kenya was bombed, the target was the American Embassy. We should be blaming who we make friends with rather than the attackers. If we hadn’t made friends with America, who have made enemies all over the world, then we wouldn’t have died the way we did. So choose your friends well.
On another note, why do Christians have a military chaplaincy? Is it any different from an Islamic state president like Ayatola? Christians abetted violence from the days of Emperor Constantine and Saint Thomas Aquinas, when they made compromises on the need for Christians to go to war, save that some rules were made in exchange for freedom of worship. No different from the concept of Jihad. But remember then, there were only bows and arrows and spears. These could choose combatants, but with the bomb itself a western discovery, any bomber cannot choose the target.
Sad that US Christians who go to war say they are doing carpet bombing, or bombing targets, that is to mean Muslim citizens.
Terrorism is factual but the West is doing propaganda and they seem to have convinced Kenyans a large majority of them as the threads here show. The propaganda war has been won but the moral war is still on and will be on for years to come.
Remember Bishops and Cardinals prayed for both armies during the world war, to go and be victorious. So the culture of violence is as Christian as it is Muslim. People used to say this was the early church, but look at the present theologies of evangelicals. It is about salvation (segregation), prosperity (theft) and healing (fraud) and what results do we get? A fractious, violent society that only sees the wrong in Islam but not what it does.
Finally on the Kadhis Courts Christians are most insincere. At Bomas, of the 600 delegates, only 75 were Mulsims including MPs. When the courts were put to vote, 370 plus voted in favor. The committee was chaired by one Bishop Sulumeti, who pleaded for the courts, as they were already rights being enjoyed by that minority. Assuming all the 75 muslims voted, the bulk of 300 delegates must have been daft Christians. Now Sulumeti has changed his mind, what has changed?
The sum of all this hatred of Islam and Muslims in Kenya will do only one thing; radicalize them. We are lucky we have had a very moderate Islamic population. When by our own bigotry, we make them radical, then we invite the situation that obtains in Iraq, Afghanistan etc and I look forward to that day.
Good luck Christians
Patrick Ochieng
Salah, you are doing a great disservice to Muslim population in this group. If I were you, I would not support this man blindly. Let the facts speak for themselves.
There is a preacher called Deya, and as Christians, we don’t support them coz they are our brothers. When he is wrong, he is wrong. Nothing can change that.
You should try and charter a plane for this guy to be flown to Jamaica (where he is banned coz of his radical teachings against Christians). The other human rights supporting him are simply out doing so for the sake of prospective funding from Al-Qaida.
I insist that the person who invited this guy in Kenyan should be put under strict surveillance by the government.
Mr. Lee Makwiny.
I don’t think this post is about Sheikh Faisal, it is about the claim being made out of context that “Muslims taking over Kenya in 20 years time” and I made my point that they will do so by the age old process of “boy loves girl and they have twins”. At no point did I allude to the preacher, but now that you brought it up, you put the burden of a rejoinder on me.
What crime did the preacher commit?
He entered Kenya through a land border and was given a tourist Visa after paying for it.
What crime did he commit? Did he kill anyone? Did he have dangerous weapons apart from books? Did he steal babies like Deya? Did he even say anything treasonable against Kenya as a state? He did nothing, absolutely nothing!!!.
He is being made an example of in wars that criminalize an entire ideology that existed for more than 1400 years. This is a clear example of war on Islam being played right in our neighborhood, and we are arguing about the merits of holding people in jails without evidence of a crime, or putting surveillance on people because they invited a preacher?
Mr. Makwiny, even Deya was given due process by the UK before deportation. Sheikh Faisal, on the other hand, is being mishandled without any evidence of a crime committed.
You as an intellectual person should NEVER advocate for people to be treated the way you would not want to be treated.
Salah
Patrick,
You have missed the import of the issues that informed this subject being raised in the first place.
Your analysis is very right, but it is like an elite athlete running off the track. It does not matter how fast he runs. He is off the track. This does not however mean that he cannot run. He can do real well if he came in the pitch and ran against the other elite athletes.
I said that we, both Christians and Muslims must condemn evil. If one of us is preaching hate, we must join hands and say no. We have no place for religious prejudice. We must all preach love, peace, national healing, brotherhood, reconciliation and oneness without vilifying Christianity or Islam.
Having said that, it was wrong from a Muslim Sheikh to mount the podium and proclaim that because Faisal had been arrested, Muslims were going to take over Kenya in 20 years time. That is the kind of religious bigotry that we must all vilify.
There is nothing wrong in being a Muslim, a Christian, Hindu, or Atheist. What is important is respect; respect for all.
Odhiambo T Oketch
Felix Otiato
Hope this email will find you in sober mind.
For the past two weeks, we have witnessed hate campaign against Islam. Some of us have been quiet, lest we are declared persona non grata, by majority, who feel that they own this country.
Nevertheless i have one plea. We are Muslim before being Kenyans. Hence our loyalty is 100% to Nation of Islam, and then Kenya. That translates that before I love Felix Otiato, I should love and protect my brother Sheikh Feisal. Thats why I will lead the demonstration to fight for his right of freedom.
The Government of Kenya has mistaken our silence to mean that we are cowards, and that’s why, when Pastors and Bishops are involved in scandal or hate speech, no action is taken.
The point is Sheikh Feisal is innocent until proven guilty, and we cannot all be judge and victim of circumstance at the same time. Hence lets desist from this hate campaign against Islam
mohamed osman ali
Salah,
I have been a supporter of Kadhis court, but when I heard a fellow yelling at the background ( I think it was KTN News) that Muslims are going to take over Kenya in 20 years time, it got me worried since Kenyans have never had religious difference. I don’t mind a Kenyan Muslim becoming a President of this republic, but someone using religion, we all need to get worried. I would be uncomfortable even if they were Christians championing such sectarian course.
On Sheikh Faisal, many of us who have traveled outside know how people are treated outside there. Kenya should not be an exception where anyone can come in and stay as long as he wants. There must be laws and rules governing countries world over. I am yet to see an organized demonstration for Kenyan’s who have been mistreated elsewhere, especially in Saudi Arabia….
It is a pity that we defend outsiders than we defend our own, but that is the nature of many Kenyans.
Odhiambo,
I like your last sentence. Unless we Christians, Muslims and other Religions clean our hearts and reach out to each other, we will be victims of Western Brain Wash. We will feel more comfortable with Homosexuality and Lesbians and people almost walking naked in the streets because our masters say so.
Just try and set laws that will punish Homosexuals and Lesbians and see the reaction from the west, and make laws that restrict Religion and you will be hero.
My Sisters and Brothers Shetani amekuwa na Nguvu. Both Christians and Muslims have a common challenge and they need to stand together. Learn from how the 2 helped each other in Rwanda.
My Brothers, please open you eyes and see what the west is doing to us. We hold so much hatred and it will bring nothing good to this Country. Please read the Speech of Botha Below.
Read this very carefully guys and take a close look at yourself and the environment that you live in today).
Botha speech 1985:
THE FOLLOWING is a speech made by former South African President P.W. Botha to his Cabinet. This reprint was written by David G. Mailu for the Sunday Times, a South African newspaper, dated August 18, 1985.
“Pretoria has been made by the White mind for the White man. We are not obliged even the least to try to prove to anybody and to the Blacks that we are superior people. We have demonstrated that to the Blacks in a thousand and one ways. The Republic of South Africa that we know of today has not been created by wishful thinking. We have created it at the expense of intelligence, sweat and blood.
Were they Afrikaners who tried to eliminate the Australian Aborigines? Are they Afrikaners who discriminate against Blacks and call them Niggers in the States? Were they Afrikaners who started the slave trade? Where is the Black man appreciated?
England discriminates against its Black and their “Sus” law is out to discipline the Blacks. Canada, France, Russia, and Japan all play their discrimination too. Why in the hell then is so much noise made about us? Why are they biased against us? I am simply trying to prove to you all that there is nothing unusual we are doing that the so called civilized worlds are not doing. We are simply an honest people who have come out aloud with a clear philosophy of how we want to live our own White life.
We do not pretend like other Whites that we like Blacks. The fact that, Blacks look like human beings and act like human beings do not necessarily make them sensible human beings. Hedgehogs are not porcupines and lizards are not crocodiles simply because they look alike.
If God wanted us to be equal to the Blacks, he would have created us all of a uniform colour and intellect. But he created us differently: Whites, Blacks, Yellow, Rulers and the ruled.
Intellectually, we are superior to the Blacks; that has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt over the years. I believe that the Afrikaner is an honest, God fearing person, who has demonstrated practically the right way of being. Nevertheless, it is comforting to know that behind the scenes, Europe, America, Canada, Australia-and all others are behind us in spite of what they say. For diplomatic relations, we all know what language should be used and where.
To prove my point, Comrades, does anyone of you know a White country without an investment or interest in South Africa? Who buys our gold? Who buys our diamonds? Who trades with us? Who is helping us develop other nuclear weapon? The very truth is that we are their people and they are our people. It’s a big secret. The strength of our economy is backed by America, Britain, Germany.
It is our strong conviction, therefore, that the Black is the raw material for the White man. So Brothers and Sisters, let us join hands together to fight against this Black devil. I appeal to all Afrikaners to come out with any creative means of fighting this war. Surely God cannot forsake his own people whom we are. By now every one of us has seen it practically that the Blacks cannot rule themselves. Give them guns and they will kill each other. They are good in nothing else but making noise, dancing, marrying many wives and indulging in sex.
Let us all accept that the Black man is the symbol of poverty, mental inferiority, laziness and emotional incompetence. Isn’t it plausible, therefore that the White man is created to rule the Black man? Come to think of what would happen one day if you woke up and on the throne sat a Kaffir! Can you imagine what would happen to our women? Does anyone of you believe that the Blacks can rule this country?
Hence, we have good reasons to let them all-the Mandelas-rot in prison, and I think we should be commended for having kept them alive in spite of what we have at hand with which to finish them off.
I wish to announce a number of new strategies that should be put to use to destroy this Black bug. We should now make use of the chemical weapon. Priority number one, we should not by all means allow any more increases of the Black population lest we be choked very soon. I have exciting news that our scientists have come with an efficient stuff. I am sending out more researchers to the field to identify as many venues as possible where the chemical weapons could be employed to combat any further population increases.
The hospital is a very strategic opening, for example and should be fully utilized. The food supply channel should be used. We have developed excellent slow killing poisons and fertility destroyers. Our only fear is in case such stuff came in to their hands as they are bound to start using it against us if you care to think of the many Blacks working for us in our houses. However, we are doing the best we can to make sure that the stuff remains strictly in our hands.
Secondly, most Blacks are vulnerable to money inducements. I have set aside a special fund to exploit this venue. The old trick of divide and rule is still very valid today. Our experts should work day and night to set the Black man against his fellowman. His inferior sense of morals can be exploited beautifully.
And here is a creature that lacks foresight. There is a need for us to combat him in long term projections that he cannot suspect. The average Black does not plan his life beyond a year: that stance, for example,should be exploited. My special department is already working round the clock to come out with a long-term operation blueprint.
I am also sending a special request to all Afrikaner mothers to double their birth rate. It may be necessary too to set up a population boom industry by putting up centres where we employ and support fully White young men and women to produce children for the nation. We are also investigating the merit of uterus rentals as a possible means of speeding up the growth of our population through surrogate mothers.
For the time being, we should also engage a higher gear to make sure that Black men are separated from their women and fines imposed upon married wives who bear illegitimate children.
I have a committee working on finding better methods of inciting Blacks against each other and encouraging murders among themselves. Murder cases among Blacks should bear very little punishment in order to encourage them.
My scientists have come up with a drug that could be smuggled into their brews to effect slow poisoning results and fertility destruction. Working through drinks and manufacturing of soft drinks geared to the Blacks, could promote the channels of reducing their population. Ours is not a war that we can use the atomic bomb to destroy the Blacks, so we must use our intelligence to effect this. The person-to-person encounter can be very effective.
As the records show that the Black man is dying to go to bed with the White woman, here is our unique opportunity. Our Sex Mercenary Squad should go out and camouflage with Apartheid Fighters while doing their operations quietly administering slow killing poison and fertility destroyers to those Blacks they thus befriend.
We are modifying the Sex Mercenary Squad by introducing White men who should go for the militant Black woman and any other vulnerable Black woman. We have received a new supply of prostitutes from Europe and America who are desperate and too keen to take up the appointments.
My latest appeal is that the maternity hospital operations should be intensified. We are not paying those people to help bring Black babies to this world but to eliminate them on the very delivery moment. If this department worked very efficiently, a great deal could be achieved.
My Government has set aside a special fund for erecting more covert hospitals and clinics to promote this programme. Money can do anything for you. So while we have it, we should make the best use of it. In the meantime my beloved White citizens, do not take to heart what the world says, and don’t be ashamed of being called racists. I do not mind being called the architect and King of Apartheid. I shall not become a monkey simply because someone has called me a monkey. I will still remain your bright star…His Excellency Botha. ”
Dear All,
Our age and time does provide for the opportunity for freedom of speech, but that also comes with responsibility. At our time, we should think like twenty first century heroes – where our ideologies have a place in our hearts, but matters of national interests are fully anchored in our minds and reasoning.
Radical teachings are neither good for a Muslim nor for a Christian, regardless of the source. Detaining people on basis of suspicion has no a place either, but where there is reasonable doubts, we should let the law take its course, because that law is for everyone who believes in sanity, and to bring sanity to those who believe otherwise.
We are not law implementers or makers and so we can only express our opinions and not lead ourselves to communications like the one below, since this brings hatred.
Regards,
David
I wish to commend this contributor for almost being able to walk the tightrope to the end. This debate, like any other ethnic or religion charged, is as controversial as it’s full of ignorance and egoistic jingoism.
That Christians at one time preached and practiced war like bigotry is an undeniable fact. That Islam have in a great part; come out as a religion of death is as clear as day light. Are there peaceful people in both religions’s. A big yes?
Sadly, even with all Western or foreign influence completely removed from the arena, The Islamic community is replete with fundamentalist rotting in oil money, ready to sponsor young, ignorant, or religious brainwashed, bomb strapped, demented characters, to keep blowing their imagined enemies to smithereens, for the tiniest disagreements.
That these inhuman tendencies are daily being demonstrated in Islamic countries and cities is not arguable. Are they religiously sanctioned not from the KHURAN? Just as those Violent Christians of yester years were not sanctioned by the Bible.
My prayer to contributors in this forum who truly believe that Islam is not a violent religion is; Please Openly crusade against these mass murders of our own Islamic brothers. 100 KILLED BY A SUICIDE BOMBER in Afghanistan, 33 PEOPLE in Karachi,70 in Iraqi, Iran police short to death 10 demonstrators, and three different suicide bombers killed 60 people, most of who were school children. All these daily Headlines of Muslim Killing Muslim can not be justified my friends.
This makes Islam look like A RELIGION of death. Please work to stop it instead of justifying it.
In my openion Islam is a misunderstood religion. Just at the starting of Quran God says that , These people who call them selves muslims are not muslims and when we ask them no to create mischeif in the land they say that we are the ones who correct the wrong doers (Then god says) These people are the real mischief creators but they themselves do not know. (Note i didnt quote it because the real verses become very long If you want to know the real verses read the beginning of surah Al Baqara).
Also many of the terrorist attacks are not caused by muslims they are mainly faked (in my openion). In 9/11 400 jews were missing from the building and most of the important offishals were also absent if the goal was to kill US leaders then surely it would have been planned at a time when many government offishals were present.
This is not something new. In early 1970s India had its own people hijack a plane Ganga and it was said by the media that Kashmiri muslims hijacked the plane.
So i think that western media is just trying to give Islam a bad name. I do not say that muslims are not involved in this but saying that only muslims do this is wrong also i dont this that that person is a muslim who kills innocent people because Islam says
“He who saves one person, He saves the humanity” , “he who kills one innocent person It is as though he has Killed the entire humanity” so Islam is a religion of peace.