Kenyans
This thing they call Kadhi courts should be done away with once and for good. This civil rights or courts for Muslims are very dangerous for our future generations. Take for example, that somebody is married to a Muslim, and one day changes her or his religious beliefs. Then a divorce case is to be settled. How will you go about this? Or a couple where one is Muslim and the other is pagan or Christian. Will he or her be tried in Kadhi courts, then later in the real country`s court?
The constitution and the state laws will not provide strictly for domestic abuses, children abuses, neglects, etc.., if you leave the Kadhi courts to operate. This has been seen in a lot of Muslim countries, where girls are not allowed to attend classes or schools, and are being forced into marriages. We want an all inclusive constitution, NOT a selective constitution. God or Allah is a general name for the almighty and it is not only Christianity or Muslim or African religious traditions. So arguing that the word God should be removed from the constitution or from the national anthem is just nonsense.
Why would we Kenyans build a house without a foundation (GOD)? Perhaps to save time and avoid the hard work of preparing the stone. Or Possibly because the waterfront scenery is more attractive or because beach houses have higher social status than cliff houses. Or perhaps some Kenyans want to join their friends who have already settled in sandy areas. Or may be they have not heard about the violent storms coming. Or do we think that disaster can not happen?
Whatever their reason is, those with no foundation are shortsighted, and they will be sorry. Kenya is a state built on a strong foundation and that foundation shined the very day we got independence. It is only a few Kenyans who have tried to betray or sell the country. And our foundation is GOD the ALMIGHTY.
Where were those who now want that the word GOD be omitted or removed from our constitution, when people like DIDAN KIMATHI were being tried and executed? Where were these people now demanding that God should be removed from our national anthem in 1963 or before that, when the British were killing independent fighters like flies or animals?
We are taught to forgive, but not to forget. During those days, people were living on God, and that was the faith and the stone Kenyan independent fighters rested on. Some young generations have not even asked why was the name GOD included in our national anthem, they just wake up and go to dot. com or Google, and think they know everything.
I think that this element, demanding that God should be omitted from our national anthem, should go back to school and get the real reason why the word God was included in the national anthem. This person must be a traitor, just like Judas.
The word God in the national anthem and Kadhi courts in the constitution are completely two different things.
Paul Nyandoto
Paul.
islam is complete way of life. In the first place, the religion doesn’t allow a Muslim lady to marry anybody possessing other religion. Here shows ur total ignorance about religions, either xtan or islam. Therefore u can’t take this motion further. Believe me, I just read your first paragraph, and that was enough to understand that there is no value attached to your words. Ask about xtan and I will answer you well.
Dear Kenyan Muslims,
I know that the people most likely to gain knowledge are those who are willing to listen. It is also a sign of strength, not weakness, to pay attention to what others have to say. I have been and I’m still against including Kadhi courts in our Kenyan constitution, because the reasons given to us about including those courts have not been convinsing.
I do also apologise if in the course of my writings, I have caused some people harm or hatred towards muslim community in Kenya.
But me being a scholar who is very much eager to learn a lot and more:
-PLEASE CAN ANY MUSLIM IN THIS FORUM GIVE US CLEAR REASONS WHY THOSE KADHI COURTS SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THIS NEW CONSTITUTION?.
– WHAT KENYAN MUSLIMS STAND TO LOSE IF THE KADHI COURTS ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE CONSTITUTION?.
– WHAT ADVANTAGES HAVE MUSLIM SOCIETY GAINED IN KENYA WITH KAHDI COUTRS SINCE 1963?.
– Have muslims been paying extra taxation to maintain those courts in kenya since 1963 and why ?.
I believe that people who are eager to listen continue to learn and grow throughout their lives. If we refuse to become set in our ways, we can always expand the limits of our knowledge. I do think that if you can enlighten us on those points then you will save a lot of extra writtings on these kadhi courts. A lot will be learnt from your contribution. Waiting to read from our muslim brothers and sisters.
Paul Nyandoto
Folks,
In Addition:-
– How will other Tax Payers who are not Muslim Gain from paying taxes in
Expenses and Salaries to the Kadhi’s Court as is included in the CONSTITUTION?
– Will it be a fair deal to have Muslim Sheikhs to earn and be treated SUPERIOR
with ENDOWMENT INCOME by the Government through Public Taxes as
oppose to all other Citizen of Kenyans’ Religion, faith and beliefs, as contained in
the CONSTITUTION?
– Will that balance the DEMANDS for NEEDS and FAIR EQUALITY of all Kenyans
irrespective of Religion in the DEMOCRATIC GOVERNANCE of Equal Rights of
Citizenship in the Rulership of Kenya?
– Will that not amount to DEFRAUDING other Kenyans Rights by creating SEGREGATION
of inequallity on other Community of Kenya in DISCRIMINATING enjoyment as in
enshrinement of their DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS?
– How will that bring Peace, Love and Unity to Greater Development Prosperity when others
feel LEGALLY more SUPERIOR to the Rest of other Faith Based as well as the rest of
other Kenyan Larger Society Citizenship?
– How will the Democratic Rule in this Context be Free and Fair without PREJUDICE?
– With Kadhi’s Court included in the Constitution, determining Two Tire of Power, how
will the supreme Law and Order & Plan of the Government of Kenya’s system provide
fundamental balanced principles to govern its Citizen fairly without at some point,
falling a victim of conflict of interest?
At this point, I believe the future will judge us very harshly? We must correct and
mend possible loopholes that will bring future conflicts now…..This is the time to
make the necessary changes not tomorrow…..the past is gone, change is for today
to save tomorrow…..
Thanks,
Judy Miriga
Diaspora Spokesperson
Executive Director
Confederation Council Foundation for Africa Inc.,
USA
http://socioeconomicforum50.blogspot.com
I do concur with those agitating for the removal of Kadhi courts. Arguments for inclusion of the courts do not cut any ice at all. It is important to look at the example of Tanzania, with a much higher population of Muslims, yet do not have the Kadhi courts entrenched in their constitution. Other countries similarly have even smaller populations of Muslims yet do not have Kadhi courts in their constitution – instead they run them at their own expense.
Arguments citing the pre- and post-independence agreements between the sultanate of Zanzibar and our first president have no place in the now. We have a document (constitution) to review and we should review all sections. None of us alive were asked whether they wanted Kadhi courts or not in the constitution during independence. The fact that there is much resistance, labeling those wanting Kadhi courts out as Christian extremist is running away from the truth. Let us look at everyone firstly as a citizen before we talk of religion.
Inclusion of the courts infringes on the rights of Kenyans, especially in matters of discrimination. Any position/job supported by public funds should not be restricted to people professing a faith. Look at the bill of rights “… no one should be discriminated on the basis of .. religion …”.
The Muslim community will not suffer by exclusion of the Kadhi courts in the constitution; they will still conduct their affairs as guaranteed by the constitution.
Wilson
Kenya is a secular state, right? Secular means non-religious, right? There is no recognition of religions howsoever right? Kadhi court is not a religious office, right? Then why should the constitution state that for one to qualify to be a chief kadhi, they must profess the islam religion? I need a clear, answer in “English” please.
The problem with our politicians is that they are cowards
MY FELLOW KENYANS I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DRAFT CONSTITUTION WITH INCLUSION OF KADHI COURTS FOR THE FOLLOWING REASON.
– THE CONSTITUTION WILL CONTRADICT ITSELF FOR IT STATES THAT ALL KENYAN SHALL BE EQUALLY TREATED IN POSITION OF JOB REGARDLESS OF SEX, RELIGION OR TRIBE, BUT FOR ONE TO BE A KADHI MUST PROFESS ISLAM FAITH,THIS IMPLY THAT MUSLIMS HAS SOME RESERVATION I THE DRAFT. THE SECOND REASON IS THAT THE KADHI SHALL BENEFIT FROM STATE REVENUE FOR THE DRAW A SALARY FROM KENYAN CITIZENS ,WHY ARE WE FORCED TO PAY FOR OUR BROTHERS MUSLIMS RELIGIOUS LEADERS WHILE CHRISTIAN AND OTHER RELIGION ARE NOT PAID BY THE STATE,THIRD THE DRAFT STATE THERE IS NO STATE RELIGION WHY THEN INCLUDE KADHI COURTS. I APPEAL TO SINCERE MUSLIM TO TELL KENYANS WHAT WILL THEY GAIN OR WHAT ARE LOSING. TO MY ASSUMPTION IT SEEN KADHI COURTS ARE WEAK BY THEMSELVES THEREFORE THEY REQUIRE A STATE BACKING OR THERE IS A HIDDEN AGENDA. I WAIT TO BE CHALLENGE. BUT I ARGUE THOSE OPPOSING THIS IDEA TO KEEP UP
Hi,
Firstly let me start by saying I am irreligious, I have no belief in a religious God whatsoever. Secondly let me also add that My father was a muslim and my mother is a christian, I have gone to both madrass and Sunday school, I am also a law student In the UoN. Therefore my background has cultured a unique and unbiased view on this whole issue.
Firstly we need khadhi’s courts to cater to the unique personal law that is adherent to a muslim. to my ignorant Alangreen, The law is religious, if one is a christian and goes to seek divorce in court under a christian marriage they will be tried under the Christian and Customary Marriage act, specifically for the same. We have a parliament that constitutes 33 muslims, this is a proportion that has absolutely no legislative impact to create an act that will cater for islamic personal law. Secondly Khadhi’s courts cater to only Two persons who BOTH profess the muslim faith and who BOTH wish the case be tried by a khadhi rather than conventional magistrate… and only in cases involving personal matters of marriage divorce, inheritance e.t.c
Khadhi’s court are a staple in our country established under sec 66 of the current constitution and cap 66 (the kadhi’s court Act; which is just 3 pages long!) It has satisfied the unique justice needs for the muslim community in this country for over 40 years and has caused absolutely no friction I am aware of with any other ethno-religious community. Like the infamous Dracula Classic; Let us not fear what we do not understand.
To the question of taxation, whether we like it or not the state will always pay for religious expense; as a matter reality, the state sponsors Christian theology courses at several public universities, with absolutely no complaint whatsoever from other religions, There are a total of only about 11 khadhis in the whole republic who earn less than a junior magistrate. If we were to completely absolve the state from all religious function then we would end up in a leninist marxist soviet state. Let us not create friction over no deals, and it is a matter of fact that the fines and compensations generated through the average legal procedings in most junior courts can pay for the overseeing officer.
My question to you is e.g there are over 15000 cases all over kenya involving churches who pay absolutely no taxes whatsoever; should these cases also be dismissed? There are over 5000 cases involving children who also do not pay taxes… Let us not be afraid to consider other people, as a person I love to quote Jesus; Love your neighbour as you love yourself… be a good samaritan.
Why should I pay taxes for a Muslim institution? The minute I get a good answer to that, then I might consider changing my view. Theology in institutions of learning are NOT in the Constitution and if one is aggrieved by them simply go to court and ask for their removal. The law assists only the vigilant and NOT the indolent!
Other religions have their courts e.g. Catholics have their Canonical courts, the Ameru have their Njuri Ceke, but they don’t benefit from tax-payer money. Why should the Muslim institution be any different?
Its astonishing how people are willing to defend an institution whose entrenchment was the biggest exhibition of lack of wisdom in this country.
Arguing that kadhi courts are away of expressing the islamic faith and that the same symbol of expression should be protected in the supreme laws regardless of the feeling of others, is intolerance of Highest order,accompanying concoction of threats not withstanding.
These demands,appetite and desires to be lifted above all others speaks volume on the attitude of a people who call themselves a minority.
Religion is not a gender,disability or a physical condition that requires affirmative actions. Religious faith is a choice that people make based on information available, the prevailing inspiration powers and people switch depending on the degree of persuasion.
Repeating the mistake of our forefathers in the coming referendum will be a disgrace to future generation.
This may seem out of topic, but I believe it may be a good reason as to why Kenyan Muslims want recognition by the New Kenyan Constitution. Take your time….
An Islam columnist on Jews
By: Dr Farrukh Saleem.
The writer is an Islamabad-based freelance columnist
Why are Jews so powerful?
There are only 14 million Jews in the world; seven million in the Americas, five million in Asia, two million in Europe and 100,000 in Africa.. For every single Jew in the world there are 100 Muslims. Yet, Jews are more than a hundred times more powerful than all the Muslims put together. Ever wondered why?
Jesus of Nazareth was Jewish. Albert Einstein, the most influential scientist of all time and TIME magazine’s ‘Person of the Century’, was a Jew. Sigmund Freud — id, ego, superego — the father of psychoanalysis was a Jew. So were Karl Marx, Paul Samuelson and Milton Friedman.
Here are a few other Jews whose intellectual output has enriched the whole humanity:
Benjamin Rubin gave humanity the vaccinating needle.
Jonas Salk developed the first polio vaccine.
Albert Sabin developed the improved live polio vaccine.
Gertrude Elion gave us a leukemia fighting drug.
Baruch Blumberg developed the vaccination for Hepatitis B.
Paul Ehrlich discovered a treatment for syphilis (a sexually transmitted disease).
Elie Metchnikoff won a Nobel Prize in infectious diseases.
Bernard Katz won a Nobel Prize in neuromuscular transmission.
Andrew Schally won a Nobel in endocrinology (disorders of the endocrine system; diabetes, hyperthyroidism).
Aaron Beck founded Cognitive Therapy (psychotherapy to treat mental disorders, depression and phobias).
Gregory Pincus developed the first oral contraceptive pill..
George Wald won a Nobel for furthering our understanding of the human eye.
Stanley Cohen won a Nobel in embryology (study of embryos and their development).
Willem Kolff came up with the kidney dialysis machine..
Over the past 105 years, 14 million Jews have won 15-dozen Nobel. Prizes while only three Nobel Prizes have been won by 1.4 billion Muslims (other than Peace Prizes).
Why are Jews so powerful?
Stanley Mezor invented the first micro-processing chip.
Leo Szilard developed the first nuclear chain reactor;
Peter Schultz, optical fibre cable;
Charles Adler, traffic lights;
Benno Strauss, Stainless steel;
Isador Kisee, sound movies;
Emile Berliner, telephone microphone;
Charles Ginsburg, videotape recorder.
Famous financiers in the business world who belong to Jewish faith include Ralph Lauren (Polo), Levis Strauss (Levi’s Jeans), Howard Schultz (Starbuck’s), Sergey Brin (Google), Michael Dell (Dell Computers), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Donna Karan (DKNY), Irv Robbins (Baskins & Robbins) and Bill Rosenberg (Dunkin Donuts).
Richard Levin, President of Yale University, is a Jew. So are Henry Kissinger(American secretary of state), Alan Greenspan (Fed chairman under Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush), Joseph Lieberman, Madeleine Albright (American secretary of state), Casper Weinberger (American secretary of defense), Maxim Litvinov (USSR foreign Minister), David Marshal (Singapore ’s first chief minister),Issac Isaacs (governor-general of Australia), Benjamin Disraeli (British statesman and author), Ye vgeny Primakov (Russian PM), Barr Goldwater, Jorge Sampaio (president of Portugal ), John Deutsch (CIA director), Herb Gray
So Mr. Dahlo the contention is not about the states expenditure on religious issus? ama? we have a government that pays for a variety of religious functions from preyer days to CRE to khadhi’s courts…
My question is simple if you live in Nairobi and your taxes build a road in garrissa which you never use will that be unconstitutional?
I think the Muslims advocating for the inclusion of the courts are being selfish.
They have nothing to lose in its absence from the Constitution. This is not a war of Christians against Muslims, but of the selfishness of bringing into the law something that the government has no say on and cannot change.
Religion is sensitive in that people are ready to die for it and still be declared Matyrs. The Israel-Palestine war is a religious war, and we have had Muslims in Kenya who are not Arabs, or been to the Middle East burn American and Israeli flags in protest over a fight there.
From this, it is self evident that religion should be left alone , that is what’s best for all Kenyans, be it Hindu, Lego Maria, Catholic, or Atheist. Its not a war against Muslims, but a desire for stability
Bad idea to have this stuff in our constitution, read this stuff that might be coming to Kenya
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html
we might be turned from a democracy to a dhimmocracy. http://www.dhimmitude.org/ ,
here is a small site with sort of a small argument against Kadhi courts:
https://sites.google.com/site/justconstitution/
with all due respect to the postings made by you scholars from Kenya, i still am not convinced that kadhi courts should be included in the consitution. well i was looking at the old consitution whereby the Kadhi courts are to be honoured by meeting the following requirements:
(2) A person shall not be qualified to be appointed to hold or act in the office of Kadhi unless –
(a) he professes the Muslim religion; and
(b) he possesses such knowledge of the Muslim law applicable to any sect or sects of Muslims as qualifies him, in the opinion of the Judicial Service Commission, to hold a Kadhi’s court.
(3) Without prejudice to section 65 (1), there shall be such subordinate courts held by Kadhis as Parliament may establish and each Kadhi’s court shall, subject to this Constitution, have such jurisdiction and powers as may be conferred on it by any law.
(4) The Chief Kadhi and the other Kadhis, or the Chief Kadhi and such of the other Kadhis (not being less than three in number) as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament, shall each be empowered to hold a Kadhi’s court having jurisdiction within the former Protectorate or within such part of the former Protectorate as may be so prescribed:
Provided that no part of the former Protectorate shall be outside the jurisdiction of some Kadhi’s court.
(5) The jurisdiction of a Kadhi’s court shall extend to the determination of questions of Muslim law relating to personal status, marriage, divorce or inheritance in proceedings in which all the parties profess the Muslim religion.
where as in the proposed draft, the courts will be honoured by;
(1) There shall be a Chief Kadhi and such number, being not
fewer than three, of other Kadhis as may be prescribed under
an Act of Parliament.
(2) A person shall not be qualified to be appointed to hold or act
in the office of Kadhi unless the person—
(a) professes the Muslim religion; and
(b) possesses such knowledge of the Muslim law applicable
to any sects of Muslims as qualifies the person, in the
opinion of the Judicial Service Commission, to hold a
Kadhi’s court.
(3) Parliament shall establish Kadhis’ courts, each of which shall
have the jurisdiction and powers conferred on it by
legislation, subject to clause (5).
(4) The Chief Kadhi and the other Kadhis, or the Chief Kadhi and
such of the other Kadhis (not being fewer than three in number) as may be prescribed under an Act of Parliament,
shall each be empowered to hold a Kadhi’s court having
jurisdiction within Kenya.
(5) The jurisdiction of a Kadhis’ court shall be limited to the
determination of questions of Muslim law relating to personal
status, marriage, divorce or inheritance in proceedings in
which all the parties profess the Muslim religion and submit
to the jurisdiction of the Kadhi’s courts.
now unless you dont understand, you are still advocating for the inclusion of kadhi courts in the constitution.
thankyou…
ur arguments against kadhis courts are nt reasonable,,pliz let us all be kenyans n stop lookin at thngs dat will not affect u in anyway,kadhis courts has been dere for ages,why now do u complain,u say muslims will not suffer bt am tellin u dey will,bcoz where will muslims head for there marital issues,the church??the kenyan law?all dis r not ryt,my fellow kenyans ,tax is nt da issue cos it hasnt eva been ,why now?n muslims pay taxes for thngs dat dey dnt benefit frm,lyk the church,y is dis nt considered huh??