From: James Owaka
Tonny,
I as well as many Kenyans share in your frustration. The so called ‘mungiki’ are running a well oiled, co-ordinated and expansive ring of extortion…their modus operandi has outwitted even the savvy sleuths of our time. The only time Police have responded they arrested a few hundred of guys. Which begs the question…thought…..and perception…..of Police and or Government complicity.
I do agree with other people who have said that the Government certainly is not doing enough to contain the group and the that the group seems to have time to plan and implement their acts.
In respect of the supposed negotiation/Dialogue that the Government ostensibly intends to have with this or affiliated Group i guess is an indictment and an act of admission on the part of the Government, not Raila Odinga, that it can not use sheer fire power to bring this group down.
If such Dialogue will keep the wheels of development running in Central and some parts of Rift Valley then Dialogue is a cost effective way of working out the crisis. The people in these areas live in fear and not even the presence of a Policeman with a gun would dissuade them to open their shops when Mungiki have passed on a small note instructing otherwise.
I watched in disbelief the day before yesterday when someone said on TV….Hata sasa tunataka hawa watu watu tawale..serikali hakuna …. na haiwezi.
Would negotiation restore hope peace and tranquility? I guess so!
– – –
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:06:57 +0000
Subject: RE: Negotiate with Mungiki?
– – – – – – – – – – –
I personally support the position taken by the PM on Mungiki, how long has the use of force been tried to silence Mungiki? We have had this story ever since the time of President Moi.
I also believe that use of force is not the right solution. Time has shown that Mungiki, is not just a group of thugs, the level of organisation in the group, the oathing process all show that it is a group with a cause. This type of groups cannot be silenced by force. Look at the LRA in Uganda, the Ugandan forces have been using force to try and silence them for almost two decades. When the dialogue process started the armed conflict stopped, what had been tried for several decades by use of force was accomplished in a few weeks..and they are still in the dialogue. Let us hope they come to agreement.
Back home, government has been fighting Mungiki for many years, everytime government uses force, Mungiki goes underground…until the next strike then we are back to square one…PM calls for dialogue, in a matter of minutes/hours all violence stops, this is unprecendented in the fight against Mungiki…It is always better to discuss issues openly. The happenings in Kenya in the last few months should teach us something. Sometimes it is necessary to think outside the box. Even negotiating with what are thought to be “thugs”..in any case why are we calling them thugs? simply because we do not understand their concerns/problems/grievances…
I firmly believe in engaging in discussion and the power of dialogue.
John Matogo
Strathmore University
Nairobi, KENYA
– – –
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:38:34 +0100 (BST)
From: John Matogo
Subject: Re: Negotiate with Mungiki?
– – – – – – – – – – –
From: Elijah Kombo
Kenya has got structures that dictates everything on governance. The law takes precedence of all illegal structures which is the reason why the Sabaot thing, Chinkororo, Mungiki et are all illegal outfit that falls on the same group as Al Queida. Law and order are two things that cannot be separated and negotiated. All Kenyans subscribe to the law of the land. The existing structures define how we rule, govern our institutions frm social, economic, political, and cultural.
Mungiki is a social/political misfit without an agenda to justify us thinking inside the box with them. They do have any cause or course to fight for. They should follow the law of the land. They under living under the same umbrella me and you are surviving. Negotiation with Mungiki will bring a very bad precedent and every tribe will also have the same. We fought for our independence, and now what we fight for is ‘ukoloni mamboleo’ through the existing structures within and without. For example if Mungiki thinks things there is a violation of human rights – then they should consider court process or even goig to Hague and talk to thsoe guys to intervene. Harassing, beheadin, killing, raping, drinking blood is pure satanism. Even the devil (if ever existed) is not mad like that! A replica of throwing an innocent child and mother into the burning church. A replica of what the devil commission unveiled of young children being sacrificed. Go back to the Old Testament and read the stories of Balak and Balam in the book of Numbers. Where there is good, there is bad.
I admire Mungiki on the other hand. They are expose some little cowardice by killig innocent people. I bet you, if you have met the adherent of Mungiki, they arovely brothers and sisters living in Kenya under the same conditions we are in. They have only been pushed to a corner where means of survival is not to their advantage. They are fightig for what a madman cannot see…no objective to get Kenya to the next liberation. We are in the next and final dispensation – socially, political, economically etc and Kenya will be again on the world map not this year but after 2012.
Me and you know very well that the current problem now ad after have been brought about by our leaders. The current so called government of national unity will not survive the coming of a crop of poltician who are with sound mind. Infact the truth is that the current unitary government is a hoax that will also die a natural death at some point in time. ITS AN ILLEGAL GOVERNMENT as kenyan did not choose it. We have two illegal leaders – say the PM and the President. When we went to th polls, we were determined to put in place leaders that could listen. Instead power was stolen from Kenyan and pocketed by few individual who have ruled us since great great great even Mzee Jomo Kenyatta is annoyed being within the premises of Bunge. And this is also why i think Mungiki guys are annoyed.
So if we agree that the curret governement is illegal, we will be on the right track to true democracy and last liberation, and much more a dynamic dispensation towards good living. Our democratic institutions have been abused. And if Mungiki are for this course then i shall join them in the past future but not now. They need to be dealt using the law.
Peace is powerful than war. Love is more powerful that hate…..as oe Dr Paul Kay said on the grounds of Uhuru Park.
I get a kick of out of this…..and looking forward to change after drinking blood……..and Lakwena will tell us whether we are on the right track or not.
Do you know the story of Haile Selasie and how he dealt with those opposed to his rule. An enemy is an enemy. Dialogue, and counter dialogue will suffice to destroy the enemy……he invited the Rebels to a state banquet while his army invaded the enemy camp. He praised the enemy while his soldies were surrederig to Haile Selasie’s army. Close to 600 soldiers had accompaNIED THE REBEL TO hAILE sELASIE STATE HOUSE for a banquet. When they went back to their camps – it was finished.
Let us stand against injustices using the already set structures.
Regards
Dr, Sir, Professor, Field Marshall, the CGH, Conqueror of the British Empire
HE Idi Lakwena Haile S
– – –
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 02:23:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Negotiate with Mungiki?
– – – – – – – – – – –
John,
Before force on Mungiki or any other organization of
that nature can work, the public opinion must first
favor the state machinery (political leadership,
economy and law enforcement authorities).
But as things are in Kenya, negotiations as you say,
is the best way forward. But it will not only be about
negotiations with Mungiki. It will be about
negotiating a lasting settlement of every citizen
between 18 and 35 years.
Because first, we need to tackle the problem of
economic disparities, share among all of us, the
little we have and then raise the stick whenever
someone goes wrong.
Going to war with the poor, people with nothing to
lose, is going on a self suicide mission. That’s why
America quickly pulled out of Somalia but will not let
go of Iraq and Afghanistan. Oil and the gateway.
-James
– – –
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:11:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Ololo Mamboleo
Subject: Negotiate with Mungiki?… Yes, the only way out.