Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:08:01 -0700 [01:08:01 PM CDT]
From: Duncan Nyabilo
Subject: RE: Dual Citizenship
The opinion advanced both by proponents and opponents in this debate somehow leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
There is a need for real objectivity based on material facts and it is my understanding there is always two side to a coin.My position may sound harsh to some but I owe no apology for this.
We may be attempting to simplify facts, but that does not mean we have to be economic with facts. One may have travelled to all continents in the world, but that does not give one the advantage of knowing all for the travels are for various reasons that may be very personal.
Before a country enacts dual citizenship laws, the so called loop holes are sealed and it can insert caveats that protect against such abuses.
Second, investment is not just walking into a market place and buying whatever one wants epecially if it is either large or involving foreign money.
For that matter, let us not regress back to the eighties when one had to apply even for foreign exchange when gopuing out of the country.Remember one Waruru Kanja who was jailed for not declaring some change when he came back to kenya.
The world has become a global village, freedom of movement is what is in now, let us step up to the plate and show some civilization.
Once again, I say, I AM NOT LIMITING MY TAKE TO INVESTMENT ONLY.
Duncan
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 13:03:39 +0000
From: katexjohn@ . . .
Subject: RE: Dual Citizenship
There are five year visas and renewable. Why can’t you make use of this in the meantime if you want to invest back in Kenya? Or better still why can’t you retain Kenya citizenship and maintain a long term renewable visa in your destination country?
Kenyans have for long been unproud of their country so whenever they get a chance to go out they denounce their citizenship so fast. What’s wrong with negotiating with the Rwandese govt to give you a ten year renewable visa if they want you to remain in their country instead of adopting Rwandese natinalization?
As Kenyan immigration I would have a problem with someone who is too willing to adopt another citizenship? Now that you have it good why do you want to come back? You couldn’t stick with me when things were thick, why not remain where you thought was good for you then?
— On Sat, 16/5/09, Peter Otieno wrote:
From: Peter Otieno
Subject: RE: Dual Citizenship
Date: Saturday, 16 May, 2009, 2:29 PM
Duncan,
Thank you for your contribution.I think you may have been abit harsh on your judgement that people who oppose dual citizenship are guys who have never moved outside their homes- but I am proud to say that I have travelled widely to many countries and 3 continents to be specific.
What we are saying here is that the reasons being advanced by the proponents of Dual citizenship are far-fetched and ill- advised to say the least.You dont have to hold two passports to invest in your mother land.What is it that is hindering you from investing now in Kenya ? Because you are holding a foreign passport?Far from it, you can still invest because Kenya will offer you a resident VISA but if you feel that you need the Kenyan passport then just revoke your foreign one brother- your loyalty cannnot be shared.
Let us not create loopholes for foreigners to get free citizenship especially if they intend to hold on to the other one.
Can you give us facts why dual citizenship is necessary???
Ayuaya Masira
Shanghai China.
— On Fri, 5/15/09, Duncan Nyabilo wrote:
From: Duncan Nyabilo
Subject: RE: Dual Citizenship
Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:20 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen,
This thread has brought the beast in a lot of people. A lot of the contributions here are selfish, illreasoned and boarders absurdity. That one has not been priviledged to travel outside their home should not be a reason for one to opose the truth just because one has access to a computer and so must be seen to be saying something , however let us assume that this enacted or not, what would the people opposing it gain anyway.
To get to the point, dual citizenship is required for alot of reasons, investing is the minutest of them.
The purpose is to facilitate free , unhindered movement. Once people can move freely, commerce follows in stride. Thus, the call for dual citizenship.
I wonder where the people opposing dual citizenship were when even getting a passport had to be cleared by the govenment before it is granted to one. Let us not regress into the medevial era and think like the stone age people.After all, the world has become a global village, those advocating for isolatoionism should look at what is called the EU passport, the ECOWAS passport among many others.
I rest my case.
Nyabilo.
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Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:07:54 +0300
Subject: Re: Dual Citizenship
From: lyneira2007@ . , , \\
I have read your Peter!
But take is that you left for UK or US on a green card…Yu have gotten enough wealth you truely feel yu need to invest at yur own Country,here comes sunctions( paper work) you go thru affidafty and processes inorder to invest in yur own country. Too absurd yet the Western pple yu see around are given free access to their country despite the years they stay in Africa…only East Africa haswa Kenya is rigid to Dual citizenship…West Africa is practising it an is working pretty well.
Here yu ave left Kenya 4 Rwanda and the Govnt of Rwanda give a MUST to be a Rwandeese…what will yu do? will yu die hard to be a kenyan and loose the job or yu be one?
To me I still maintain that (having 2 passports isnt a crime so long as they rightfully acquired).
This will improve the Economy period!
What is the point of dying a kenyan…a poor kenya in the name of being a partriot? chukua passport ingine na uchape kazi yu acquire the wealth yu bring it to Kenya…
……ahahahah
lyne
On 5/15/09, Peter Otieno wrote:
I think it is a misconception that when dual citizenship is allowed in Kenya then more people will start investing in Kenya.Who are these people that we are talking about? Kenyans who cannot invest now because they are citizens of another country? Foreigners who want to cash on the confusion to become kenyans in order to have acess to two passports?
I think , the thought is misplaced.If you are a KENYAN but you are not investing back in your country because you fear something- The answer is that you ought to choose where you want to be associated with ( either your original mother land or your current host country BUT NOT BOTH).
Can you people imagine the confusion that may occur for example during international games ?
Do I have to run for my current host country or for my motherland Kenya?
Let us not confuse ourselves – Choose where you want to be ( KENYA OR OTHERWISE ) and pledge your loyalty to that single nation .
Let us not create loopholes for crooks to come and fleece us then they run away like the TRITON BOSS because they have an alternative ” SAFE HEAVEN “.If I want to stay in china forever, for example, then I should not think of retaining my Kenyan Citizenship.
My take,
Ayuaya Masira.
ShangHai China.
— On Thu, 5/14/09, lyne ira wrote:
From: lyne ira
Subject: Re: Dual Citizenship
Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 3:17 AM
I fully support dual citizenship…that only can rivive Kenyan’s Economy at length.
Lynne
—
Children of destiny do not die…are you one of them?
On 5/14/09, Martin owino wrote:
Your view on dual citizenship is wrong. Where it has been enacted into law, there are overwhelming development by the natives investing in their own villages and towns.This is eveident in West African Countries.
By the way, those who are fleceeing our resources are in the government not outsiders. Let’s back our opinions on these issues with facts/statistics and observations on what is hapening in other countries and not by feelings and unfounded fears.
Let’s say YES to dual citizenship so that natives abroad and their children can invest home without reservation. Let’s have some vision and lonterm projections. With technology developing very fast, the world is soon becoming a global village that such measures will not only fail but will be like shooting yourself on your on foot….or cutting a tree branch on which you are sitting.
I know a lot of Kenyan-American who are waiting for that bill to go thru so that they can initiate businesses without going thru work-visa ill-process that treats Kenyans abroad even worse than actual foreigners (sic)
There are more to gain by enacting Dual Citizenship into law than to loose. Let’s Vote Yes on that one
Blessings
Martin Owino, MPH, President
African Health Foundation
P.O. Box 1774
Framingham MA 01702
” A Hands Up, Not a Handout Organization”