Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 05:51:15 -0700 [05/20/2009 07:51:15 AM CDT]
From: kosgey kipyego
Subject: Re: Kenya needs a Dictator.
We need an economic dictator. We called Moi a dictator and see the difference. Am not saying he was the ideal leader, but you know. Paul Kagame was dismissed by many as a dictator, see Rwanda’s level of development? Far East dictators? Where are they now?
—– Original Message —-
From: Shadrack Kirunga
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:45:02 AM
Subject: Kenya needs a Dictator.
Wanabidii,
This morning a friend of mine posed this question: Do you think our
country will be saved? (Not the christian way but from our bad
leadership)
I dont have an answer but after some discussion, we agreed that a soft
form of dictatorship is what we need in this country. She went on to
quote Mutava Musyimi who once said that its better to have a dictator
than to have a weak leader.
We have talked so much, but as long as our crop of leadership remains,
we remain in the same situation. We know our problems, we feel the pain
of the bad leadership and bad policies and a government that is just not
working for its people.
What do you think? Do we need a real revolution? Do we need to front a
dictatorship to pull us out of this rut?
Over to you.
Milton obote Joshua 5/19/2009 9:56 pm >>>
You miss the whole point I am making. I think you need someone to translate it for you to understand.
Jakarachuonyo
— On Tue, 19/5/09, karanja goro wrote:
From: karanja goro
Subject: RE: Ministry of Finance of Kikuyu (Kenya)
Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 3:45 PM
Hi Jakarachuonyo
I do agree with you on the point of representation, but all in all we
should first look at merit. By saying this am not defending what
treasury does but that if first try to encourage merit then the problem
“might” somehow be changed. By asking for representation do we put merit
aside. This representation is what messed the country through the policy
of 85% of secondary school admission. It ensured people stayed in their
home district rather than mingle with others and appreciate their
cultures
KG
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:00:51 +0300
Subject: Re: Ministry of Finance of Kikuyu (Kenya)
From: kamau.moses.n@ . . .
Wana bidii,
Bad politics has propagated tribalism in our great country Kenya.. A
possible solution is to de-politicize our country through constitutional
& legal changes. Power should be spread out and delocalized. Politics
should seize to be central in our lives.
When we are not politicking, we are not tribal! If you are looking for
the best Dentist, would it matter what tribe he/she is?
The fact of the matter is that the people at the Treasury have employed
their Kikuyu *friends and relatives*. They would gladly employ a Luo
if he gave them the right amount of money. It is nepotism and
corruption, NOT TRIBALISM!!!
My hope and prayer is that my children will live in a country where
they are judged by the content of thier character and integrity, not by
their names!!!
The Kikuyu politicians are busy eating (with their friends and
relatives)* they will then come to us (Kikuyus) in 2012 and rally us to
protect *our* leadership from the Luos or Kalenjins* What crap!!!!
Regards,
Moses
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Jac wrote:
Tribalism! What a hot topic that many people shun since it can burn
your fingers very first, but I am not afraid of that since I know very
well that this problem will keep on affecting this countries for decades
if we don’t talk about it without shying off.
I really admired the way Barrack Obama tackled the issue of racism
during his campaigns last year and he was able to reduce this issue from
a stumbling block to a stepping stone on his fight for the presidency.
He has not only made history as the first black president of USA but
also he has gone a long in positively changing the world perception on
race issue and people around the world have realize that we are all
equal irrespective of the color of your skin. In Kenya we need to follow
suit and tackle this issue head-on.
I am happy that people in this forum have started realizing that we
need to give solutions about the various problems that are affecting
this country and I cant agree more with Issac and Peter on this.
As a country we need to state clearly whether we need to purely go for
merit or set laws that ensure that every public institution has an
outward look of “Kenya” in terms of Human Resource irrespective of
their pros and cons?
As a matter of fact all the public institutions today recruit on merit
basis and if this doesn’t happen in some organization then a whole
community should not be victimized because of that. It is unfair to do
that? For the initiator of this topic to use “Ministry of Finance of
Kikuyu (Kenya)” as the subject of this email it is demeaning to the
mentioned community since it paints a picture that all Kikuyus are
responsible for the problem in Treasury. Just the other day we had
Museveni who also referred to a whole Kenyan community in a way that
was felt as demeaning to the mentioned community. People should stop
this behavior since it just fuels hatred and unnecessary acrimony.
What we should do is to decide on what want as a country as far as
fighting tribalism is concerned during recruitment in public
institutions instead of extending hatred towards a certain community on
suspicion that it’s practicing tribalism since today it might be this
community but tomorrow it might be another one. So for all of us to be
comfortable we need to figure out a way forward.
Countries like Rwanda have enacted laws that restrict her citizens
from making any negative statements against another tribe. We can still
do this in Kenya and I think this is something that need to be discussed
and submitted to the experts who are spearheading the constitutional
review process for consideration during the process.
Another way for fighting tribalism is through our education system
where it should be made mandatory that one goes to a High school outside
their home province.This will go along way in making people appreciate
other communities.
I believe that others have more solutions out there…………
Jac
……………………………………….
I am human en human make mistakes
—
Jackson Gathoni
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:31 PM, edla muga wrote:
Why is it so difficult for some of us to accept that there is a problem
of perceived and actual misrepresentation by Kenyans when public
institutions do not ensure that they balance things?
— On Sun, 5/17/09, Milton obote Joshua wrote:
From: Milton obote Joshua
Subject: RE: Ministry of Finance of Kikuyu (Kenya)
Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 9:04 AM
Karanja,
You have a valid question. Yes merit and competence are good measures.
The trouble is not with these two values. The main problem is the
assumption that merit and representation are opposing values when they
are not. Rest assured that I can go to Kisii and find well qualified
personnel to run the entire Kenyan bureaucracy. In other words, don’t we
wish that in a republic such as Kenyan which subscribes to the
principles of equitable representative democracy, that merit and
representation would be balanced especially in public governmental
concerns.
Jakarachuonyo
— On Sun, 17/5/09, karanja goro wrote:
From: karanja goro
Subject: RE: Ministry of Finance of Kikuyu (Kenya)
Date: Sunday, 17 May, 2009, 9:38 AM
Wanabidii
I think the issue to ask is whether the kikuyus there are competent.
I work in luo nyanza where in a company of 600 staff more than 400 are
Luo’s. I dont have a problem with that as most are delivering as
required. What kenyans need to ask first is whether someone is qualified
and competent before going for tribe. People need to realise that even
when you go to death row inimates kikuyu’s will always out number the
others. The sabotage issue may even be counter productive as it will
make managers rely on members of their tribes.
Karanja
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 04:00:06 -0700
From: kamaungethe@ . . .
Subject: Ministry of Finance of Kikuyu (Kenya)
Wanabiddi
The recent crisis that almost cost Uhuru Kenyatta his job can now be
linked to internal protest. Talking to one of the employees who did not
want his name to be mentioned for fear of victimization, the staff in
the Ministry of finance are said to be so furious with their seniors to
the extend the Ministry is divided into Kikuyu verses other Kenyans.
According to the staff members, since the year 2003 the ratio of
recruitment and promotion of staff between Kikuyu and other Kenyans is
6:2 in the Ministry of Finance and Parastatals falling under it.. This
has angered other Kenya who feel they are treated with contempt.
*We wanted to show the country and our parliamentary leaders the rot
in the Ministry* he added. The parliamentary Committee investigating
the Sh. 9.2 billion typing error also confirmed this claim of tribalism
in the Ministry.
The sad news is that some departments are so staffed with Kikuyus that
even departmental meetings are held in Kikuyu language. No wonder
Kikuyus have a problem with other Kenyans.
Someone must take action and very fast
Kamau
MAJIMBO KILLS TRIBALISM AND BURIES IT
In countries like Namibia, Tanzania, Japan majimboism is used positively to:
1. equitably distribute national resources
2.equitably distribute national jobs
3.ensure equitable development in all regions
4.ensure that those who work out of their jimbos get a percentage of their taxes sent to their jimbos by design
5.ensures that all jimbos budget for their needs every financial year and ensure they receive what justly reflects the said budget
6.ensues that civil servants are well paid and do not take part in business while holding gainful office(Ndegwa Commission refers)
7.the Prime ministers supervise the distribution and implementation of all projects and reports back to parliament
8.ensures that all corrupt leaders to the exception of none are sent to jail
As long as Ndegwa Commission is in place, majimbo is in central province alone since Independence, no punishment handed out to corrupt leaders, impunity is glorified, tribalism earns corrupt leaders huge privileges Kenya will not move an inch in development.
Tribal leaders who pack the offices they are in charge of with their tribesmen are sitting on quick silver and this is worse if they come from a minority as the Kikuyu of Kenya who form only less than 20% of the population! Soon the centre will stop holding the day the more than 80% of the population, the non-GEMA may refuse to take impunity and arrogance lying down. The people who form the majority showed that they can pay for justice and freedom with their lives when they bravely faced cruel heartless police bullets after the votes were stolen from them, the true winners of the 27th December 2007 presidential elections.
Where there is equitable distribution of the national resources, no impunity and arrogance of those in power tribalism dies as the people are too busy developing their regions in a just way.
Leaders must urgently use the stuff between their ears to preempt the imminent political Armageddon which will surely come.
DR. ODIDA OKUTHE
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 15:04:35 0000 (GMT)
From: mugo muriithi
Subject: Re: JOMO KENYATTA started Tribalisim
It is not justfiable for Oduor to think in a simplistic, narrowminded and misleading way that all Kikuyus feel that they were entitled to the leadership and resources of this country. I would like to dessociate myself from those feelings. It is a wrong and unjustifiable crucification of Kikuyus. We should be sober in thinking.
— On Sat, 23/5/09, Kennedy Oduor wrote:
From: Kennedy Oduor
Subject: Re: JOMO KENYATTA started Tribalisim
Date: Saturday, 23 May, 2009, 1:00 PM
Shaban you are very right. Mzee Jomo Kenyatta planted the first seeds of Tribalism in Kenya. He not only grabbed land but also made Kikuyus have the feeling that they were entitled to the leadership and resources of this country. This feeling has persisted and was a major cause of the 2007 electoral theft. There was a feeling among the Kikuyu elite that they could not just hand over power like that. Jomo Kenyatta also caused animosity among the Kenyan tribes by trashing them, by rediculing them and by killing their leaders. Today the death of Tom Mboya, Pio Gama Pinto and many others are associated with state assasinations orchestrated by the Kenyatta Administration.
The Kenyatta family today own land that is EQUAL TO NYANZA PROVINCE, where almost 500,000 people live and the annoying fact is that NO POLITICIAN wants to talk about this and one UHURU KENYATTA has totally refused to admit that of their lands were grabbed from Kenyans and still go on national platform to campaign to be elected the President of this country and get support from his community, while many Kikuyus are squatters in the country. Kenyatta did not even give any land to the so called War Veterans. He trashed them and told them that there was nothing for free.
Actually when we stay with the truth-Kenyatta betrayed the cause of UHURU. He is the main cause the Land chaos in Riftvalley. He transfered many Kikuyus into Riftvalley, settled them there many of them free of charge at the chagrin of many Kalenjins. Land Reform therefore is a major plank in the development of this country but also for peaceful co-existence of our people. Watch the Making of a Nation and you will see how Kenyatta ruled this country with an iron fist and dished all lucrative jobs and appointments to his fellow Kikuyus. The development of central province is not about hardwork..Its about State supported development both through infrastructure and dishing of major public procurements but also loans that made the people able to start Businesses as early as Kenyatta’s days. Many of them too were sponsored by the state to study abroad. This is the truth that many would never want to talk about. The skewed development in kenya has always been POLITICAL and TRIBAL..Nothing like someone is more hardworking than the other….
— On Fri, 22/5/09, shaban ndege wrote:
From: shaban ndege
Subject: Re: JOMO KENYATTA started Tribalisim
Date: Friday, 22 May, 2009, 2:14 PM
Guys Mzee Jomo Kenyatta started Tribalism and land grabing…From Safaripark/Kasarani to Delmonte and Ol Donyo Sabuk (14 falls) ….Nakuru town to Ngata/ Salgaa 27 kilometers….without mentioning Front all the land in Mombasa beach….. ON your way to Wundanyi, Malindi, Subukia, South Coast and Rift Valley. The guy grabbed all the Land………..Guys!!! the few cases
we are hearing now is just but Nothing compared with what the Late did………
Kenya has had DICTATORS since its creation by British imperialists. In 1963 the face of the dictators changed from whites to blacks with very dire consequences (a) overt brutality with impunity (b) corruption involving distribution of land to foreign interests and creation of slum townships for Kenyan citizens. Land is doled out to foreigners to enable them to grow agricultural products in Kenya for export to their citizens abroad (c) Yoweri Kaguta Museveni and his buddy in crime Paul Kagame are gearing up to annex what is left of Kenya’s land with the help of unpatriotic Kenyan elites currently running the government. Kenyan land is in the hands of rich Arab Gulf oilmen and multinational corporations calling the shots in Kenya. Lake Victoria may already be in the hands of Goldman Sachs, the sole beneficiary of the world financial collapse. The company has its eyes on land around Muhuru Bay near Lake Victoria in case the acquisition has not been done.
Migingo island saga is the clear indication of what is about to happen- violence!
KENYA DEFENDS HERSELF
Prof Philip Alston in his report painfully touched sore nerves by stepping on the toes of the Kenyan political gods. As a reaction to that a high powered delegation comprising the Attorney General, Amos Wako, ministers George Saitoti and Mutula Kilonzo are due to defend Kenya against all that Philip Alston has accused the country of.
The very presence of these three at the UN Human Rights Commission Headquarters to defend Kenya not only plays in the hands of Prof Philip Alston but also that of the international community. That the people Kenyans regard as some of the chief architects of impunity, corruption and arrogance are in Geneva to defend the very injustices, impunity, and corruption is nothing but contempt not only for the Knyan people but also for the highly regarded human rights body.
If Kenya has nothing to hide why did Minister Saitoti not allow FBI to assist in the investigations on the extra-judicial killings? What is it in the said Alston report is, according to him, not true?
If one of their tasks tomorrow is to prove to the world body that the Kenyan government is clean, then why did Saitoti ignore the order from his Prime Minister to allow FBI onto the said extra judicial killings? Was his defiant act against the Prime Minister’s order to him to allow FBI to take part in the investigations not one of callous impunity rampant in our government today?
What message will the presence of Minister Mutula Kilonzo who was never a reformer at any time of his life, deliver to the UNHRC?
The government’s stand that Kenya is sovereign and that Professor Philip Alston is a foreigner who should not interfere with internal affairs of Kenya does not hold any water at all. His foreignness and our sovereignty are not a passport for the government to mete out atrocities to its citizens. Professor Alston should be congratulated instead of being ridiculed.
Tomorrow, 1st June 2009, the presence of the three Kenyan VIPs will simply say to the UNHRC that impunity in Kenya is there to stay.
It should be the hope of all peace loving Kenyans that the UNHRC will tomorrow treat the three Kenyan leaders with the contempt they deserve.
Sending the three to Geneva clearly tells the world that the Kenyan government has no sensitivity whatsoever where the livelihood of her citizenry is concerned.
DR.ODIDA OKUTHE.