Now Kosgey and Poghiso have seen enough of their disorganized government and have broken off from the spirit of “Ministerial Collective responsibility”. Like Ruto, they too are talking of the government this, government that.
At the time the prime minister is saying things like, “The Government efforts must not be frustrated by a few selfish politicians who are doing it purely for political reasons”. And that “we will do all that is possible to find a solution to the people leaving the forest,”. Kosgey was crying foul by stating that “We agreed as a Government that the eviction would be implemented according to the laws of the land governing compulsory acquisition, but what is happening in Mau is the complete opposite”. “We should not render people destitute and create a humanitarian crisis as is happening now in the name of conserving Mau.”
In brief, Kosgey is saying that the cabinet did not say that the mau residents be indiscriminately evicted and told to go wherever they feel like. While the PM is saying the eviction is done in a humane manner Mr. Kosgey is saying, “Mr. PM come and see for yourself, it is not humane”. As usual the prime minister has been misadviced to bite a big chunk of meet he cannot swallow. He trusted the so called government, gave his word and followed it not knowing that he is not privy to things being discussed in the state house.
The whole world saw what happened. When the guards were well organised in demolishing houses, they were not accompanied by a well organised transport or resettlement plan. As usual, Africans know how to destroy but have no business building anything. The evictees were simply told to leave their homes and go wherever they wanted to. At least that is what the arrogant Wekesa said openly. There was utmost impunity in the glaring camera lights and Kosgey is now telling the PM openly, ” You are lied to Mr PM”.
The worst part of this is that the prime minister, who stamped his name on this projec, was busy fighting with Ruto. What happened to Raila “the advocate of the poor?” What happened to ” Chuny piny”, What really happened to “the man of the people”?
In my opinion, this was not even in the docket of the prime minister. This issue was an issue that the ministry of land, environment, human resources and internal security was totally capable of handling. Why did Raila get involved and why did Kibaki completely ignore the issue until recently? Why was this the issue that Raila pegged his carreer on? I think I know the answer. It was popular to save the environment and look good to the international community. Well, that is true but at the same time, the international community takes the plight of the poor very seriously, and saving them is just as popular and hence, Raila should not persist on the wrong path.
Stop Mr. Prime Minister, accept that we have a humane issue and help to genuinely settle these poor people. You are making Ruto look good through our innate sympathy for those who are being trodden upon. It is not too late for a change of heart.
Raila put himslef at the centre of this, leaving Kibaki totally free to calculate how to make him look bad. Raila has all over suddenly become the government, while Kalonzo Musyoka, the vice president himself, has become the opposition. While Raila was busy saving the forest, his advisers failed to tell him what was going to happen next.
Well, we have it here. Young children left in the cold, in make shift huts, poor old people riding on the back of donkeys, women genuinely building small make shift tents, and yet Raila, Wekesa and Mchuki insist it is humane, and that those poor people trying to keep themselves warm, were simply people brought over there by Ruto to politicise the issue. There is no politics in this. Simply resettle the people and then let Ruto move to his other political issues.
Who is now playing politics with this? The answer is with Kosgey and Poghiso. Kosgey and Poghiso are the most moderate Rift Valley politicians. Even in times when they had been pressed to join the Rift Valley band wagon, they have always made independent decisions. For Poghiso to say that he will side with his child first before he is a tree, it implies that this mau issue has gone too far and the prime minister should take this issue very very seriousely. Kosgey and Poghiso have said enough is enough. What else can I say?
Dr. Barack Abonyo
Response to Dr Abonyo’s ‘Kosgey & Poghisio Have Now Seen Enough.’
You have spoken well. You have consistently thumped your chest, saying that you must tell the ‘King’ when he is naked. Early on, I advised you to do so in private, if indeed you cared that your intellectual opinion is taken seriously. Unfortunately, you seem not to have had the ‘King’s’ ear even through proxy and what you are left with are these forum where you are yelling your voice horse. Professor, kimya. Two plus two is not five even when calculated in power ten, and even if you shout the loudest. Saving Mau is right now, tomorrow and even after 2012.
Unfortunately, big egos and politics of succession are what we are dealing with here. Here are the facts:
1) Post Election Violence was waged to make Kenya ungovernable after Kibaki’s illegitimate election.
a) Some also used the opportunity to rid off certain communities from certain quarters.
b) Ruto believed that he was cheated when Raila picked Musalia as deputy PM. Ruto’s and many bystanders’ perception was that his efforts, (which now are seen as the reason he would go to the Hague), should have been rewarded. So he resorted to underhand tactics. Blackmail and insubordination, or does he really mean to?
2) The National Accord was reached and Kibaki would not share power 50/50. Raila was faced with two battles,
a) Get Kibaki to relinquish his 50% of executive power. Here he found Mau as a good seduction tool, or did he really mean to?
b) Having been hardened in detention by Moi’s scrotum squeexing spanner boys, he would not give in to blackmail. Here, he decided not to oppose the prosecution of those alleged to have committed crimes against humanity.
3) Kibaki, having ‘won’ the elections but failed his people in RV and almost losing some to the Hague.
a) He had to settle the IDPs and then get even regarding the RV situation. The solution? Mau. If Raila could do it, why not relinquish power? Or did Kibaki really mean to?
b) By getting even, he somehow got entangled with Mungiki, not knowing that you can never get out of a Mafioso ring. When the Mungiki saw it was apparent that they were about to be betrayed in the face of ICC, they threatened to spill the beans, and they were released, or did the Government really mean to?
Are you lost? No need to. Politics is a dirty game. Since politicians have in the past not stood for tangible issues in Kenya alliances shift every so often. Maybe some politicians may stick to some issues this time and will finally be able to sell themselves to Kenyans on these issues rather than tribe.
The questions I pose for Dr Abonyo to answer are: Do you think Raila is his own man? What do you think Raila would like to be remembered for? Maybe, just maybe we are witnesses to the answers to these questions.
Unfortunately for the likes of Dr Abonyo, they are against the Mau because of what it may do to Raila’s future chances of ascending to the highest position in the land. Indeed Bendera hufuata upepo tu.
Kosgey, Poghisio and Pesa Position.
—
Joram Ragem
wuod Ndinya, wuod Onam, wuod Amolo, wuod Owuoth, wuod Oganyo, wuod Mumbe, wuod Odongo, wuod Olwande, wuod Adhaya, wuod Ojuodhi, wuod Ragem! (Are you my relative?)
TO ALL,
There are some people who have always belonged to the other side and we simply carried them in ODM as baggage. These now include Kosgey, whom we are yet to come to terms with especially, if history will be rechecked on him.
All the Moi boys are now coming home to roost, and that includes also Balala, who i understand is now dancing with the YK”92 boy Ruto to frustrate the PM. Remember there was a time Balala was sacked as a mayor of MSA.
Kenyans might hang on to leaders who do not dillydally on issues, no matter the repercussions. The steps and political suicidal steps taken by Jaduong are but what a leader is made of. Have asked here and then what stops the Kutunys,the kiswahili speaking comedian, Isaac[the one who Moi sacked during his time, Cheruiyot, the powerful fellow who should be investigated for all crimes, Kosgey of Goldberg, Ruto of YK and pipeline court cases, and all those Raila haters. They should by now have given their fat wallets to take care of the evictees. Majority would not have seen parliament isipokuwa to hang on Raila’s wave.
For now you, appear to have won the battle by insulting the PM every day, but this short time fame will not last. We pray day and night for the PM to sort out this issue successfully.
I fail to understand… may be I am too slow to understand Dr. Abonyo’s take on this issue. I don’t know why Kenyans always reduce everything to: Personal. ethnic and to victimization politics. I thought Mau issue was a national interest to Kenya public at large. I read what Kosgey was saying and there was nothing wrong . In emerging Democratic society like the one Kenya is attempting to develop …there is nothing wrong with expressing opinion that may be contrary to the government policy .
Forget about what Ruto, Kosgey and the rest of the Rift Valley team opinions are on this issue, Mr. Oginga, as I understand it, is carrying out government policy that was passed by the parliament. Mr. Abonyo seems to be suggesting that its the PM’s personal agenda against the Mau residents and Rift valley MPS…I am missing something Hello!!!!!!!. I thought the days of ” blaming the messenger” were waning in this country…this country Mr. Abonyo?????.
Instead of focusing on: tribal politics … Rift Valley MPs Vs the PM, the VP and the President position on Mau issue, the efforts should be made to call out the current government policy that has led to the eviction of these people from Mau forest. The personalization of Mau issue like Mr. Abonyo is trying to do is doing this country disservice.
Mau forest is national treasure that belong to all Kenyans, NOT to: Rift Valley MPS, PM, VP or the President!. Mr. Abonyo if you are right that ” Mr….Kosgey and Poghiso have had enough”, why can’t you direct them to go ask the parliament to amend or to revoke the eviction order through parliamentary act???. I don’t see any reason why the short comings of Mau forest eviction can solely be directed to the PM.
Maybe Mr. Abonyo doesn’t remember the role the President plays in these national issues!. I don’t think the PM has gone rogue on this Mau issue without the blessings of the current administration, which these MPS are a part of and the President.
From where I am standing, I don’t see anything wrong with Rift Valley’s MPS advocating for the welfare of the people of their region. At this time it does not matter what these MPS may say on this issue…many of them are apart of this administration. They are the same law makers who passed and delegated this task to Mr Oginga to carry out!.
My small “beef” with Mr. Abonyo’s take was on the the personalization of Mau issue!!!!..rather than that your take is OK!!!!
It is the height of hypocrisy when tormentors shout loudest, claiming they are the tormented.
We never heard any of these fellows shout when settlers in Rift Valley were subjected to arrow shots and cold nights when their houses were torched during 1992 and 1997 tribal clashes.
During 2008 PEV, we also did not hear them shout about inhumane treatment(including killings) of settlers in Rift Valley
In the spirit of national healing we only pray that they shut up, repent and join everybody else in nation building including contributing constructive ideas on how to return the mau evictees to their homes. If they cannot use their privileged positions in government to iron out any shortcomings of the evictions, let them not play to the public gallery. Their theatrics are absurd and reminding us of their dark past.
When we remember their dark past, we find ourselves exclaiming ‘Go to Hague’ and ‘may Hague lead you to repentance’
Brown.
Just in case you have been following my arguments, my original issue was that people should not be evicted, but that they should be educated and trained to live harmoniously with the environment, as it has happened in other parts of the world, where land is scarce. My reason for this is
1. There will be population explosion in Kenya anyway, and places like the mau will not be exempted from inhabitation, hence we should learn to live in the forest without destroying it
2. I knew the government has no capacity to resettle anybody. They have the capacity to scare people out of places, but they have never done any good resettlement except immediately after the colonialists left
My second issue was why the PM got into the centre of the MAU issue, which was going to be political suicide for him. If it was a government issue perse, why didn’t he let the minister of land, environment, human resources, internal security or any other minister do his job? Why did he not decide to work on this from behind the curtains? And if it is such a grave issue, why did he not let Kibaki himself speak on this? At least he has nothing to loose.
Why Am I concerned about the PM’s involvement. Mr. Brown, I so happen to be a luo. Luos have been in the Kenyan opposition politics for over forty years. As a result they have been victimized, killed, maimed and impoverished because of tribal politics, which I believe is still going to continue for another 20 years.
The Odinga family is the king of the luos and as long as Raila is still alive, they are going to vote in whatever direction Raila takes. However, I hate to see the luos in opposition again. We cannot afford it and I hate to see Raila take us in that direction again.
For me to sit back and say Raila knows everything, just like Joram Ragem believes, is to say that Raila is my brain, and that I have no responsibility to my community and to my leader.
I know Joram is going to say I am a tribalist, but my answer is that if I am not true to my origin, I cannot be true to the nation. It bites more when it is closer to home than when it is in the distant.
My third issue, which I have consistently addressed, is how to treat the poor, just in case you decide to move them. I came from a poor family and I know how it feels to miss a meal. I know many poor families at times do not know where the next meal is going to come from, leave alone transport to move all the family belongings. To simply tell such a person to simply vacate his home, and leave him next to a road, to fend for himself is not palatable to me. I do not care where he comes from. The PM knew this was going to bite.
Now that the PM had decided to be at the centre of this, and now that his reputation was on the line, now that the political future of the luos are in his hands, he should have gotten involved, not only in eviction but also proper resettlement.
Lets not lie to Raila, without Rift valley vote, it will be near impossible to capture the state house. I really doubt if Sirma will deliver. As long as the Kikuyus have their own presidential candidate, and they will always have, they will never vote for anyone else.
Now as you may have observed, I do not have a problem with conservation of the environment. I have a quarrel with the way it is being done, the inhumane dealings and the lack of organization.
I do not have a beef with Raila. In fact I still believe he is the most capable leader. But at this rate, he may even loose an ardent supporter like me.
Joram, you of all the people should not question my loyalty to the course. I have been there. No need to elaborate. However, I cannot afford blind support. And by the way, Raila reads these forums more than he reads personal letters.
Joram, What did you do with my FACE BOOK. Was I becoming too popular than you expected. I hear you formed it to bring me down. I have not declared my interest in Nyando yet. Why are you fighting the air.
Barack
May God save Mau and the Rift Valley from the RV mafia fronted by Ruto who thinks getting to a single office is more important than the environment.
If the price for saving millions of people from the impacts of destruction of forests is Raila loosing a political post, so be it. Being the president of Kenya or PM is not the most important thing in the world. Similarly, being a warlord in Rift Valley is not the best profession. Equally being a YK youthwinger is not the best profession.
Is there anything happening in this government more inhumane than the nyayo torture chambers and the grisly murder of Robert Ouko, in the hands of the same mafia, now shouting hoarse about some non existent mistreatment.
Aren’t they the same people who grabbed large chunks of land, and should give land to evictees to settle on, if they think they are the most human.
Let these loudmouths know that we are right in the information age, and they are getting exposed on the spot.
In ODM, they have been wolves in the orange sheep skin.
When wolves show their true colors, there might be fears of the herd getting small but for long term growth of the herd, an identified wolf must be dealt a deadly blow. The presence of some of these guys in the cabinet, in parliament and any other public office, is not healthy for anyone including their spouses, children and themselves.
These are fellows who are undermining the long term interests of the nation.
Wuod Abonyo maluogre ni Babonyo,
Quite the contrary, I am not fighting air. I seriously thought we could direct your energies and enthusiasm in Nyando, hence http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=313745325062 was formed.
However, when you were asked to explain what you did with our funds at KDFC, or KRO, you became deaf and dumb. The group is still there, but it is rather a referendum on you. Your favorable rating is currently at 6%.
Since you are in there as an alias, you know everything happening. Just respond to these allegations here and in the group please. We do not want to think you are just like the politicians we’d like replaced.
Joragem
Like I told you, I cannot tell you anything about KDFC because you are not a member or if you are, you used a Pseudo name. I do not have business discussions on this with strangers. All KDFC members are going to have an update by 30th of DEC. If you don’t get any message then it means you are not a member.
As for KRO I must say your claim is so ignorant and many are laughing at you. I started KRO with other prominent Nyanzans but I am not even an official of KRO. KRO had a treasurer who is still keeping the accounts. The money is still intact and will be used for a noble course. One of the original members already told you so, but you ignored it because your crazy friend told you so.
My advice to you Joram is that you should try as much as possible not to start discussing things you have no idea of in public. Many, including me, begin not to take you seriously. As a matter of fact, I am wondering why I am replying this now. This may be my last communication with you and very soon I may seriously advice you to take that FACE BOOK WITH MY NAME DOWN because I do no not want my name to be associated with people who do not know what they are talking about. I worked so hard for that name.
Lastly you cannot make me. God makes me. I do not rely on you to make me. I rely on God to bring the right people on my path.
I got the email you sent about how you thought you could finish me through this face book thing from the individual you sent it to. Hope you are getting the message . God works in mysterious ways. I was contacted by a dozen of youths from my constituency who are now seriously interested in championing the course you started.
I hope you will support them. By the way which family in Kobura do you come from. Do you know Aluoch Obura? Is he still alive?
Barack
Luo guys, stop this, you are causing more resentments towards the Luos with this type of attacks!
Wise people employ the golden rule, Silence! Kibaki, Uhuru and Musyoka has employed it effectively! and look where we are today, the ODM and Raila is decimating the chance of winning the 2012 elections.
Fools would never learn, I do not believe the Luos are such idiots to repeat the 2007 specter-The Kalonzo attacks. It was exactly like what is happening today. Attacks upon any one who says anything other than praising the superb job the LUO PRIME MINISTER is doing!-Efficient eviction of one tribe!
Look here people, there were earlier evictions from Embobut, forest in Cherangany’, and today 4 years down the road, the kalenjin evicted from there are still on the Road! Who carried out the evictions of 2005? Hon. Prime Minister, Raila Odinga! The same guy assaulting the Kalenjin again, this time from Mau.
They were promised compensation and resettlements, but as we all know it was just a lie! A finger of accusation is pointing to one direction-that of Raila. The Embobut Kalenjin are still on the homeless squatter grounds.
And people are seeing the scenario repeated all over again!
These are things that do not go away, they stay till the opportunity arise to revenge. Raila or You Luos who are defending him must know, the evictees are real and they are feeling pain!
Each month, Raila bags over 11 Millon US Dollars, and lives in Mbwa-Kalied Runda, far from Kibera Slums, Mau roads and Embobut homelessness! It is easy to forget!
This is how the Kalenjins are feeling, terrorized by a ( JALUO ) And that is what Kibaki and his group wants, so that one of his own can take over in 2012.How? Well, evictees and their kin are to be reminded as to who rendered them homeless!
When 2012 comes, believe me the wounds of eviction will be still very fresh, and Raila shall stand no chance against Uhuru or Kalonzo Musyoka. Remember how many votes, from 2007 election went with Mr. Musyoka! Twice the same number will be lost if we keep on thrashing Mr.Ruto and the Kalenjin. Unity shall deliver the winning combination. Can The PM afford to lose all the votes from the Kalenjin?
It is in this context that Dr. Abonyo is trying to caution your Prime Minister. And you Luos seems not to grasp what is going on. Your Raila is being set for a thundering defeat in 2012, but he is careening at full speed into an abyss, under an illusion of saving Forests. One day if not today, Mau shall be resettled, and don’t you ever forget that. Environment can never come before people. Citizens come first, educating them is the key.
Joram, Ragem, do not go petty, I mean all this! ” consistently thumping your chest, I advised you to do so in private, if indeed you cared that your intellectual opinion is taken seriously.Yelling your voice hoarse. Professor, kimya. Two plus two is not five even when calculated in power ten! ”
No insults please, you can not gain any believable points by this insults. I would advise Dr. Abonyo to ignore you! He is far ahead in reasoning and his intellect is sound.
T.M. Nsissi, Raila needs all those votes, including all the votes from the cabbage. You can only cast one vote, do not burn all the bridges before you cross. Raila will never win with the votes from the friends and all the Luos alone! I voted for him 2007, and contributed $1000.00 dollars. This time around, it will not be for granted. Mr. PM will need a written attestation from GODS to assure me I am not the next in Line to be Evicted from my Home!
Prayers for a roof over the evictees heads would be much appreciated by the victims, don’t you think so?
JD Brown, My good friend, everything here is ;Personal ethnic and to victimization politics. Mau issue is never a national interest to Kenya public at large. It is punitive measures directed at Kalenjin only. No other tribes are affected in this evictions. 2005 and now 2009 again, are all members of one community, KALENJIN. Mr. Raila has a burning hate for Kalenjin because of former president, who detained him. We read under the lines, not between!
Fuambo Janyandito, I like your attitude. It is going to win the Prime Minister many admirers and votes! I wish you could direct me to the recruitment office of the RV Mafiosi! If the following verse is true then I obviously need protection and very sooner than I ever felt before!
Do you really mean that, the Kalenjin community,
” must be dealt a deadly blow. Anyone including their spouses, children and themselves! ” I am speechless!
Finally, Mr. Musa Sirma will be the down fall of Raila, peole are saying to the PM. We removed Him, why are you imposing him on Kalenjin? He will tell the PM what the PM wants to hear, but he will never tell him the truth, such as, ” The people are angry, from evictions “. Why would he want to mess his bank account!
When time comes, he would tell him to carry his own problems!
TEKERE JELULE
I thought under the national accord the PM duty was to coordinate and supervise govt ministries and departments, not to run them.
Raila, we have a minister in charge of forestry, Environment, and security. Please coordinate these ministries activities in the Mau saga and stop acting as a minister of forestry.
Secondly, Raila, without these Kalenjins, you would not have been a PM. They voted for you, killed for you , blocked roads for you, and now you are going to bed with your known enemies.
You are putting all luo in a catch 22 for no reason. Believe it or not, Kenyan politics is tribal. To our Kalenjin brothers note, Raila is doing this for himself and not for luos.
Mr. Abonyo and Mr. Jelule:
Thank you guys for the shout out for my rebuttal on Mau issue. For ” you all”, I don’t have any further argument with your utmost concern of inhumane treatment of the people being evicted form Mau site. All Kenyans should be treated humanely regardless of their: tribal, regional, political or economic status in this country.
My take on the PM was that he was carrying out government directives that was delegated to his office, not as an individual in this case . Some have suggested that other Ministries should have been the ones to carry these directives, out not the PM and his office. The problem with this line of thinking is that the outcome of eviction, as blessed by the central government would not change the suffering of these folks.
Also it is an insult for both the PM and Kalenjin community for someone to say that the PM should NOT carry this directive out because the Kalenjins: voted for him , killed for him..blocked the roads in the previous election…… I hope Mr. Abonyo and Julele would not condone or include this line of thought in this debate.
If I hear you correctly, both Mr. Abonyo and Mr. Julele..there is consensus that Mau eviction is a government directive act, but your main issue of concern is the process by which the government is removing these folks out, IS WHAT YOU DON’T AGREE WITH. I too agree with you. The process of removing these folks has been poorly handled by your government..not by the PM but by the entire administration.
Africans are good in destroying things than building things!…this is your quote Mr. Abonyo and you are quite right!. My suggestion to both of you is that you NEED to pressure both the PM and President’s office to use/allocate some of the money that has been donated by international organization to rehabilitate Mau forest to be used to re-settle these former Mau residents.
Finding donors to fund Mau rehabilitation is not that complicated. You can start by writing to Western Embassies in NRB for this information. There is a good chance you will find out that some Mau rehab aid came from environmental organizations from these countries, who are not affiliated with their government. If this is the case, then write/contact these organizations directly in writing, and tell them about the plight of these Mau folks and you will get a response.
What could be better than bringing two of you: Mr. Abonyo and Mr. Jelule, possibly people of different ethnic background, to work on a noble cause like the PLIGHT OF MAU RESIDENTS!!!.
Your generation must find a way to end: Hero warship, Legacy politics, Personality politics, Tribal politics in this country. How will future election benefit those who may lose their lives if this eviction is carried through??????. The point I am making is that you need to find working solutions to solve these problems for these folks.
The Rift Valley MPS who are complaining about this Mau problem..what are they doing on their own/personally to help these people out?. It is very sad to see those who are in the position of power and have the means to effect change, in this case, turn this situation into ” political football game ” for future election!.
I got to stop here. These are my few cents on this issue. I can’t get into the “local political weeds” with you guys when it comes to tribal politics!. I wish time will come when all Kenyans will be judged by what individuals stands for than what tribe they belong to !!!.
Again, thank you guys for having open and frank debate on this issue. We may not agree on everything but so long as we respect one another’s opinions, we will be OK!…Have great Thanks giving!!!
Tereke Jelule, hands down, Dr Abonyo beats me in intellectual reasoning. However, in politics I am mightier like Gor Mahia.
Seriously, I have always maintained the position that all Kenyans need to co-exist. But not to the disadvantage of others. I will never forget the contributions the RV voters made in liberating Kenya from the original Kibaki, just like I cannot forget how the central Kenya voters helped end 26 years of Moi. I have said it here in the past that Raila should never have parted ways with Ruto.
Read it here, http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=1936 or http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=2421
Raila listens and analyzes his cards, He listens to advice and intelligence. However, the decisions he makes are his own. Many have been praised here. Now it is getting more apparent that he might have misjudged the timing or even the genesis of the Mau push. Moi made Ruto, Kibaki’s election theft made Ruto man, now Raila has made Ruto mad. If their ways with Ruto have parted, he must switch on the button for his survival. If he succeeds, those who have their money on Ruto will lose again. If he loses, it will be a great lesson to us Luos never to pup our eggs in one basket again. This is in fact Dr Abonyo’s thesis which might launch him into politics.
Dr. Abonyo, I agree you worked so hard for that name. we read it in scientific publications but that is where it ends. Everything else you’ve tried politucall has not showed the hard work you put in. I am very well informed about KDFC which I believe is dead as a dodo, but not KRO.
I was very disturbed when you started calling yourself ‘Moses’ Otieno. It appeared not like a political but like an Angloleasing strategy. To return you to your senses, I formed ‘Dr Barack Abonyo For Nyando 2012’ It worked and called yourself the real deal on Wang’Buk. Now move with deliberate speed. Do not be fooled by the number of signatories, I believe this is what you call ‘insignificant’. Out over 10,000 invited 6% joined, many not because they know you, but because of yours truly. Capitalize on it.
I still believe you can do a better Job than Outa. When you are ready for prime time, please contact he who gave you insider information for publicity, but please pay him this time! I hope you have also seen that I can do good strategy for you to trounce even Miguna. As for taking down ‘Dr Barack Abonyo For Nyando 2012’, just say it, your wish is my command.
Do I Aluoch Obura? Is he still alive? I am lost. Is this a threat? The name sounds like a Prof of Literature in Nairobi University. What about him?
Hey Happy Thanksgiving.
I am,
Joragem. I am.
Joram
There was no threat in that. Just wanted to let you know that I have some guess of who you exactly are.
Barack
History always repeats itself. We are witnessing another Kikuyu Kenyatta era impunity and domination (they just kill, even when Ocampo was in town). And yes on the back of promises to the Luo (like Tom Mboya). It appears there is a deal that when the new Constitution comes, Keguoya will be eligible to run again as President with RO as Prime Minister (remember Kenyatta and Jaramogi !!).
Rest of Kenyans wake up because the Jaluo has once again fallen for the Kikuyus ‘black suit and tie’ carrot ! Moi was right. They can be bought cheaply with the head of a mbuta !
Almost 60 mps meet and raise kshs.5million only as they fight their enemy Raila.
Kalonzo musyoka is advised not to attend the meeting, but tactfully sends is attack dogs mutula and muthama, all with a purpose to fight the pm.
Am sure the pm will sail through this imaginary storm unscathed.
The same fellows who are now attacking him have been quoted in the tv, urging the govt to remove settlers in embobut forest a few years back. And now since mkuki iko kwao, they are crying crocodile tears.
Remember if the pm did not take this step, he would have been seen to support destruction of forest for political gains. Most of these rebels cannot march the tact and political chess game of Raila. Lets watch this space.
COLLOQUY with Dr. Abonyo and Mr. Jelule:
Gentlemen, I don’t mean to beat this” horse to death”, that is, your take on Mau eviction. It was slow in my neck of the woods today …I had xtra time in my hands to review what both PM and Mr. Ruto are saying on this Mau saga!. If you have spare time please, see Nation article ” Truth behind Mau…and Ruto is ready to be sacked”.
I know this is emotional issue because we are dealing with human lives here. For the purpose of this dialogue, let us focus and glean facts that have led to the eviction of these people as we know them.
The gist of the PM argument …is carrying out the government directives that were given to him by the parliament. According to the PM, Mau task force that was appointed by Mr. Kibaki in 2003 stipulated/recommended that “all dwellers in Mau forest must be removed…”.
Ruto on the other hand, does not believe this … he states that “… the manner by which these evictions are being carried out were not agreed and approved by the parliament”. However, Mr. Ruto does agree with the PM that he too is for conserving Mau forest, but the “document…the PM is using….only talked about resettlement and relocation, NOT the eviction of the Mau dwellers”. If you ask me, the truth is some where in between!.
If both of you take out the hyperbole statements like: Crocodile tears, going to hell, storm in the sea..that have been uttered by these parties, you will find out that they all agree on the preservation of Mau forest. These two principles only differ on the eviction process. To me, this is good news for Democracy in your country. At least the PM and Mr. Ruto agreed on the primary objective of Mau conservation.!!!
It is very hard to believe that relocation or settlement could be done WITHOUT eviction, per Ruto!. On the other hand, the PM cannot use “broad brush” to lump every one who does not agree with government policy on Mau eviction as opportunist. It is unfortunate that politics has been injected into this Mau issue!.
By the way do you gentlemen know if Kenya has ” freedom of public information act?” If this act exists, you can use it to find out how Mau eviction directive originated, and how it was authorized by the parliament. As it stands now, supporters of these two parties: PM and Minister Ruto, will only believe what they are being told by their respective leader and damn the facts!!!.
The characters whom you should NOT “buy from” in this Mau saga are those opposed to the eviction of Mau dwellers. Some records show that some of these people own massive land in various Mau sites. If this is true, this opposition has conflict of interest in this issue. The ways/means by which some of these people acquired these lands are questionable. Again, I don’t know what you guys think, but I do see conflict of interest on the part of this crowd!!
In my opinion these absent land holders in Mau forest ( MPS and Ex-government officials) may be USING THE ACTUAL Mau forest dwellers being evicted to cover how they got these lands through corruption.
Another, PM is “bad because he is sending these poor folks to hell” and Ruto is “good” because he is raising money to these folks!.
These MPS should not be allowed to get credit on this Mau issue both ways!!. On one hand, … in the parliament they pass eviction laws and in public/harambe, they completely turn against the eviction law they have passed to remove public dwellers from Mau site!!!.
I know Mr Julele, your utmost concern in Mau issue was moving these people with no where to go..I too did share your pain on these aspects of inhumane suffering of these folks. My question to you and Mr Abonyo is why didn’t these MPS speak out and arrange for relocation/settlement centers before the dwellers were evicted????. Who among these MPS would be willing to release his/her official statement for what they said during parliament debate resolutions to back up what they are saying NOW!!!.
Mr. Abonyo, in your last rebuttal on this subject, you pointed out well that the Luos have suffered!!. However, for your country to move forward, you will need to “think outside the box” in these national issues. Do you, by any chance see when these leaders/politicians can speak with one VOICE on national issues affecting this country?. For example, if I recall correctly, Uganda forces are still occupying Migingo Island as we speak.. (luo region area)…when will these MPS/leaders see this issue as Kenya issue not as Luo problem????.
In summary, your country will only move forward and prosper when the laws of the land are followed and obeyed. Laws must work both ways…protect citizens from government abuse, and on the other hand, citizens must obey the law.
It is great that the Sh. 5 million raised by Ruto group will be used to help these folks..this is a commendable act!. At the same time, politicians and leaders in this country cannot be left off the “hook” for lack of planning that has caused misery to Mau dwellers. Good thinking and open minded people like you should not fall in the trap of these politicians, by using their poor governing, and lack of planning, to divide Kenya people along tribal lines, like Mau issue is beginning to do.
For what I know about Kenya politics, there are no permanent political alliances or political enemies in your land. The “herds” following Ruto today in Mau issue opposition, will be with the PM tomorrow and vice versa!!. There will be a lot of turns and twist before 2012 elections. Mau issue may not decide how 2012 election will be won or lost!!!!! You guys must “go the distance” when it comes to issues of national interests. All of us must guard against “provincial ” political leaders and politics of divisiveness if we are going to make a difference in the world!!!!!!!!
Jd Brown
Nov 28th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
COLLOQUY with Dr. Abonyo and Mr. Jelule:
MR. JD BROWN
THANKS ON THE ABOVE ” COLLOQUY ”
TEKERE JELULE
Mr Brown
I am neither a tribalist nor do I advocate for tribalism. I advocate for community and the place I must start is my immediate community. If I cannot do anything to improve my community, I cannot do anything to improve other communities.
The argument was that Raila is keeping the luos in the opposition, which is hurting my community because Kenyan politics is tribal. In essence, I am saying that if Raila changes tact, then the standard of life for my community may improve. Is it wrong to strongly suggest that?
The only time the members of parliament may reconsider their stand and speak for the good of all Kenyans is when all Kenyans are educated enough to vote for development rather than tribal kings. Such a euphoria is lacking right now. The euphoria around is not what a member of parliament has done to improve people’s lives, but what tribe he belongs to.
In other cases, especially the luos, simply believe that only Raila can deliver. For the luos, the sun may even fail to rise the day Raila dies. Believe me Raila like is a small god in luoland. No luo MP can win a seat in luoland if Raila compaigns against him or if he outrightly criticises Raila. If you doubt me then ask Orengo himself.
I do not blame Raila for this, I blame the luos. After 40 years, they have allowed this kind of worship to continue. Even among the educated, sometimes it is difficult to convince them that Raila is a human being who can make some mistakes. Please dont get me wrongly, Raila is a capable leader, but at some points the guys who can tell him that he is taking the wrong direction are the luo leaders. Unfortunately, the educated luos are totally silent waiting for God to come down and fix their problem.
The only way the rift valley MPs are going to come back to Raila is if the Kikuyus treat them bad in terms of distributing the positions. This is not going to happen. The Kikuyus know that they need the Kalenjins. They lost them last time, they will not repeat that again, in case that alliance materializes.
Raila is on his on now. Do not count Sirma, he lost in the last election. All that can change the landscape is an act of God. Even if the Kalenjins decide not to unite with the Kikuyus and go on their own, Raila will still not be able to win. I do not see an alliance good enough to make this happen. I am still working on it though.
Barack
Thank you so much for well stated views on Luo politics. Your have great many challenges ahead of you when it come to your community politics Sir!. How do you reach and convince the “cult like followers” who have given Mr. Oginga unconditional support over many generations to start addressing LUO issues at macro level???.
You are quite right, leaders and comes and go!…when Mr. Oginga is out of the picture, then what will Luos do or Go???. Don’t give up.. feel free to “speak out ” and you should not be blamed for offering constructive criticism of Mr. Oginga or any other leader in this country.Remember my friend, if you don’t try..you have already fail!.
I bet many in your community feel the same way with Luo leadership, but never dare to speak out, like you are attempting to do in this open forum.
Don’t look backwards. Charge forward with your chin held high..some in your community will follow your lead!..change is not easy!. Good luck Sir.
You asked
“when Mr. Oginga is out of the picture, then what will Luos do or Go???. ”
I answer
“He will annoint his son or Oburu’s son to take over“.
It must go in record that I am not working against Raila Amolo Odinga or his family. I am just afraid that he is not doing the right thing whenever he is presented with opportunities and I am frustrated with my learned brothers who have failed to help him through sincere criticism. I am also sad that at the end of the day luoland remains poor. Education has gone down, healthcare down, industries closed and the list goes on and on.
Believe me, if luo people stood firm and talked to him before this Mau or Ruto issue went too far, he could have toned down. But he cant, because none of the MPs dare criticize him. The best that can happen is, if the Nyanza MPs as a group talk to Raila, and threaten withdrawal of support. If all the MPs say no, he will listen. If one MP say no, he can easily deal with it. They should have advised him strongly against this Ruto thing.
Barack
Almost a year ago, ” the impossible became possible”…this is the election of President Obama in the US. Yes, Mr. Obama made his election possible, BUT THE SUPPORT OF THE YOUTHS from all races/ethic background that makes America a true “melding pot”, made the election of this man possible and historical.
Obama’s election was “GENERATIONAL LAND MARK ” change in the US that nobody thought would happen in their live time …in US with her over 200 years of Democracy would elect a black man!. If left to older generation, who grew up in different era, when blatant racial prejudice against minorities was not the exception, but was the norm in large swarths of the US, there would be no President Obama!. It was young people who convinced their: Parents, grand parents, friends to lend and support Mr. Obama for who he was and what he stood for in this country. In my humble opinion, which is not that much, young people in the US, by leaving the past, and not following their family’s and societal prejudices beliefs, made history by elected the first black man to lead the US and “leader of the world”.
From your take, I see “generational gap” when it comes to to the selection of political leaders in your community. Legacy leadership of succession “rules”, and your community seems to have accepted this process as the only way to develop/groom Luo leaders into national politics. You and your generation must break down this myth of “legacy succession”, blind loyal following of these leaders by: your parents and the so- called community/elders or leaders.
Without stating the obvious, the majority of Luo Reps. know where “their lunch tickets” are coming from..In this case Mr. Oginga is the producer of these tickets. The dependency of these Reps. on Mr. Oginga renders them to be no agents of change for the needs of your community.
I would suggest to you and your group to consider the following options in dealing with your community politics. Instead of allying with one political party, or following a leader or leaders because they are one of “your own”.. you may need to form Non-Partisans (Independent Civic) groups, composed of all age group in various districts in Luo land.
These organizations, if formed, will have the potential to affect political change in your community. They will not owe political loyalty to any party or to any leader/leaders. Non- partisans civic groups will allow you to deal with other politicians vying for national office from other communities, to present their case and ask for your support. The non partisan approach will add value to your votes, and support in national and local political elections.
At this time, if I hear you correctly, voters in your community are taken for granted because, one must vote for one of their own and your leaders know this very well!. I strongly urge you to glean public literature on how Mr. Obama rose from: Community, State house and US Senate is a short span of time to where he is today. I don’t see why some of the methods and approaches that propelled Mr. Obama to his current position cannot be used by you and your group to bring change in your community in electing Reps. for both national and local political offices!.
Thanks Mr. Brown
Your advice is loud and clear
During 2002 elections, after many years of suffering under the Nyayo regime, Luos almost voted for Kibaki man to man for change. Kibaki is not a Luo and Raila’s calculation was that DP had more people who had sacrificed for the second liberation, unlike the Nyayoist, Kalonzo and Nyachaye. Associate Prof. Barack abonyo and J. D Brown, do you want to blame Raila and the luos for banking on people like Kiraitu, Karua, Wamalwa, Ngilu under Kibaki’s leadership?
After the Rainbow coalition disappointed Kenyans, how could we continue supporting it, especially after realizing the imperial presidency was a problem, and obstacles were being put to frustrate Kenyans from having a new constitutional framework, where power is not concentrated in one office. Raila saw this, and he has my support not because he is a luo but because he has consistently stood for an inclusive form of governance.
I also at times do not understand why Raila takes some risks, and at such times he does not have my support. One instance was the decision to split form Ford -Kenya, another instance was the decision to marge NDP and KANU. However I was surprised when he led Nyayoists like Kamotho, Kalonzo and Saitoti, to rebel against unilateral anointment of Uhuru and the eventual vanquishing of KANU. Do you blame luos for having supported Raila in killing the KANU ogre?
Sure, Raila is not infallible but do you blame a politician for always striking a pleasant cord for the people? Do you blame a people for supporting one whom they think stands for the interests of the whole nation?
The need for people to be open minded is fine, but can you present better alternatives to Kenyans? Dr. Abonyo can you tell us if you think you are a better alternative? If you think you are, no Luo has stopped you, just sell yourself. We are not aginst that.
Dr. Abonyo and J. D Brown can you now propose alternative leaders and do comparative analysis.
I might be biased, and therefore give you the honor(both Brown and Abonyo) to start by comparing Raila and Kalonzo; then move to Uhuru and Raila, follow that with Raila and Ruto.
As you analyze, please tell us where you want Kenya to be in the next ten years or so; and how these leaders are likely to contribute towards that.
I personally do not regret having supported FORD, FORD- Kenya, Rainbow, LDP and now ODM. It does not matter whether I am a Luo because I have met many non-luo supporters. I also do not regret that The late Jaramogi Oginga Odinga and now Raila influenced my choice.
Was the comparative analysis of leadership qualities of ‘2012 presidential candidates’ done?
People just pour out sentiments without looking at issues critically. WHERE DO WE WANT KENYA TO BE? WHAT ARE THE MOST DESIRABLE LEADERSHIP QUALITIES TO HELP US REALIZE THE VISION? THEN LOOK AT WHO HAS THOSE QUALITIES. Kuropoka, kupayuka payuka by politicians and their hirelings is our undoing in Kenya. Siasa ya tumbo will not take you people anywhere.
At the moment, Raila is my man but he also needs to lead a reformation in ODM and use it as an avenue to further reform Kenya. I long to see a vibrant and ideology driven ODM where party leaders and candidates are democratically elected.