Harry,

Resurrect= to bring back into use or life.
Resuscitate= to bring back to consciousness or to life. Doctors do a lot of Resuscitation on earth today, in fact almost every day, but we do not write publicly about the patients history. Patient history is supposed to be confidential. In fact you can be taken to court or to jail if you prove to be stupid enough to write about someones disease on a public paper or go to a TV station to say what you did to so and so. Jesus being a healer by then had all the reason to keep everything confidential about Lazarus. By the way X- ray pictures were introduced by A German called Conrad Röntgen who lived between 1845-1923 and was given Nobel price for that in 1901. Jesus lived many, many, many years before Conrad Röntgen existed. May be Jesus had X-ray in his eyes and he could differentiate who could be resurrected and who could not. On Earth today we also know that a lot of people have been presumed dead while they are not yet. The story ( John 11: 41-44) itself is true and we have very little evidence today to speak the opposite, since any good trained doctor can do it even today as we speak.People have been frozen below zero degrees Celsius where almost all organs have stopped functioning and can still be brought back to life. To a non trained person such people are dead and if not given proper medical care they will never wake up. Jesus was a great man. I Think nobody could just invent things for anybody today that he did this and that; first of all what for?; who stands to gain from fantasies which never happened?. And only about Jesus not another man or drunkard who existed by then. Remember there were thousands of human beings by then, so why only on Jesus they decided to write all those things about?. There were even rich people by then who could buy even the media to write anything they wanted about them, there were also very powerful kings, leaders but they never said the same things about them like they did on Jesus, so doesn`t it ring a bell or not still?.

Paul Nyandoto

>>> Harry 13.9.2010 9:38 >>>
Folks,

In John 11 : 41-44 Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Lets read it together;

Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.” Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!” And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with grave clothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

There are two things about this story that puzzle me:

We are not told what happened to Lazarus there-after. The Bible is silent about this. Raising someone from the dead is not any mean task. ITS NOT LIKE TAKING COFFEE. If it happened in my village, even estate, we would struggle to interview the man, do a documentary on him, follow his diet, his lifestyle, see whether he ever gets sick. We would do an X-ray on the dude…trust me. His organs would be kept in a lab for years after death. For the record, this man was dead for for days. It makes utter nonsense for the writers of the Bible to focus on the person who performed the miracle, and totally ignore the person who was raised from the dead.

Secondly, why raise someone from the dead, then the person dies at the end of it. At the end of his life? Why? For this miracle to have a sustainable meaning, then Lazarus should have risen to heaven, as opposed to dying. Or better still, he should have lived forever.

My conclusion; Lazarus never rose from the dead , darn it.

—
Harrison Mumia N
Web Administrator
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Skype: harrymumia
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From: Chakubuta Mulengwa

I strongly believe in this. Be positive!

Your words, your dreams, and your thoughts have power to create conditions in your life.

What you speak about, you can bring about.

If you keep saying you can’t stand your job, you might lose your job.

If you keep saying you can’t stand your body, your body can become sick.

If you keep saying you can’t stand your car, your car could be stolen or just stop operating.

If you keep saying you’re broke, guess what? You’ll always be broke.

If you keep saying you can’t trust a man or trust a woman, you will always find someone in your life To hurt and betray you.

If you keep saying you can’t find a job, you will remain unemployed.

If you keep saying you can’t find someone to love you or believe in you, your very thought will attract more experiences to confirm your beliefs.

If you keep talking about a divorce or break up in a relationship, then you might end up with it.

Turn your thoughts and conversations around to be more positive and power packed with faith, hope, love and action.

Don’t be afraid to believe that you can have what you want and deserve.

The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settle for.

Thought I would share this with you.

In the search for Me, I discovered Truth.

In the search for Truth, I discovered Love.

In the search for Love, I discovered GOD.

And in God, I have found Everything.

Be Blessed

Watch how your circumstances and situations begin to change when you change the way you speak.

Pass this on to as many people as you can, so they can change their lives, too.

‘Life is like melted butter. . .once things cool down, it can be reshaped!’

Lets all be positive guys and learn how to encourage each other ,accommodate each other’s weaknesses and above all Love each other just as our God has loved us unconditionally.

Regards…?
www.mimitu.wordpress.com

The Congolese don’t just make great music, for which most of us know them. When it comes to human resources, Congo has many brilliant people.

—
Follow Me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/robertalai

From: Rebbeca Alex

Secret Rapture

The Secret Rapture doctrine, instead of preparing God’s people to face the increasingly difficult days ahead, as tribulation intensifies, this Jesuit manufactured doctrine has deluded millions of Christians into a false notion of escapism. Instead of obeying the Lord’s command to resist evil and occupy until He comes, they have become so “rapture” minded that they no longer even resist the evil, believing that they will not defeat it, but instead be rescued from it.

Sometime soon, Satan will attempt to impersonate Jesus and counterfeit His return to Earth. But God’s people need not be deceived. When the disciples asked Jesus for the sign of His coming and the end of the world, the very first thing He told them was to be on guard against impostors. In Matthew 24:4-5 “Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

The devil has been sharpening his deception skills for 6,000 years and his last masquerade will be his masterpiece. Jesus warns that he will do such a convincing job that, if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. Satan has introduced the strong delusion of the secret rapture to the Christian world that has been almost universally accepted in mainline Churches. Jesus warned in Matthew 24:23-24 “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ will come the second time in glorious majesty to take His redeemed home with Him. It will be a personal, visible, and earth shaking event that everyone alive will know about. The righteous will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), whereas the wicked will be slain by the brightness of His coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Let us carefully and diligently study our Bibles so we will not be deceived concerning this most important and wonderful hope, the second coming of Jesus.

Does the Bible teach there is a Secret Rapture?
This is a brief point by point account of the order of events according to Scripture; there is Christ’s second coming, the resurrection, the catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air which all take place at the same time and at the end of the world. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 28:20 “…and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Why would Jesus promise to be with the Church until the end of the world if He intended to come seven years before the end to take them out of the world? The promise would then have no meaning.

This false doctrine on the secret rapture is contradictory to the words of Jesus in Matthew 13 when He said the wheat and tares would grow together until the “end of the world” and then would be separated. According to this dual coming secret rapture theory, both groups would not grow together until the end of the world. The righteous would be separated from the wicked seven years before the end. And what about the promise of the resurrection? Christ said, concerning the righteous, John 6:40 “…and I will raise him up at the last day.” No one denies that this means the last day of the world. Paul declares the saints are caught up to meet the Lord at the “same time” the dead in Christ are raised. He says, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Did you note that Jesus called this resurrection the “last day?” But how could it be the “last day” if this gathering of the saints takes place seven years before the end of the world? And how could the “last trump” (see 1 Corinthians 15:52 below) sound if it really wasn’t the very last moment of time? Imagine the graves opening and the righteous rising and no one knowing that it had occurred? Consider also the added testimony from God’s Word;

Matthew 24:27 “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Matthew 24:30 “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Matthew 24:31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (This is clearly the time when Christ comes to gather His saints.)

1 Corinthians 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

Revelation 1:7 “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”

Revelation 6:16-17 “And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

There is no understood scripture that says the second coming of Christ to gather His saints will be a secret rapture. All these verses show it will be a very loud and very visible event that every eye shall see. There is nothing secret about any aspect of His coming. Those believing in the secret rapture sometimes quote Matthew 24:40-41 out of context. The entire passage reads;

Matthew 24:37-41 “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”

Jesus is demonstrating the parallels between the days of Noah and the second coming of Christ. The eight that entered Noah’s Ark were saved and those that scoffed perished as the flood “took them all away.” Many have been taught that the ones taken are the ones saved but note it is actually the ones taken that are destroyed. There was no second chance. Jesus said and “so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” The last verse of this chapter tells us what will happen to those who are taken to destruction. Matthew 24:51 “And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Those believing in the secret rapture also quote Jesus in saying He will come as a thief in the night, meaning it will be a secret rapture. Jesus said in Matthew 24:43-44 “But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” Jesus is not talking about coming secretly but coming unexpectedly when we least expect Him and so the wicked will be taken by surprise. This is why Jesus tells us to be ready as we know not the hour of His return. Those who are not right with Christ and living wickedly when Jesus returns we will be taken to destruction as in the days of Noah. See Matthew 24:37-41 above. See also 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 is also quoted which reads, “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.” Same message as before be ready for Christ’s unexpected return. And what happens after His return? 1 Thessalonians 5:3 “For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” How secret is sudden destruction? Those that are left after Jesus’ return encounter “sudden destruction.” Again, just like in the days of Noah.

These two “thief texts” are also used to teach a secret rapture. Revelation 3:3 “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.” Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” In both these instances just quoted, the secrecy is also in connection with the timing not the nature of the event, and is exactly the same as the other “thief texts.” Notice the phrase in chapter 3:3 which says “hold fast, and repent” and the last part of verse 15 which says “lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

This is once again a warning to be not caught living in sin, because we know not the hour which Jesus will return. He will come unexpectedly when you least expect it as does a thief. It would be no good for the thief if you knew when he was coming as you would be ready for him and he could not rob you. In the same way we need to be ready and living in righteousness now and not just when we think Jesus is coming or we will be “caught naked and our shame seen.” Those who love and obey Jesus will be ready for His return. This is the meaning of the phrase “to come as a thief” that is used several times in the Bible to warn us so we will not be left behind.

And still one more. 2 Peter 3:10 says “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

Again, absolutely nothing secret. To the contrary, it could not be more obvious. It states after Jesus comes unexpectedly as does a thief, “the heavens shall pass away with a great noise” and “the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth … shall be burned up.” So when Jesus returns the very next thing is the end i.e. the last day. If coming “as a thief” is a secret rapture which takes place seven years before the end of the world, how can the heavens and earth “pass away” as Peter describes it? Three of these “thief texts” are all followed by the same unmistakable catastrophic sudden destruction. Coming as a thief is unexpected, NOT a secret!

(sent by: HUMPHREY MBOGO)

—Bill Crowder

The Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. —1 Samuel 16:7

Answering media charges of scandal and impropriety, the guilty politician responded with the plea, “I have no recollection of those events.” It was yet another attempt of a public figure to apply a strategy called “plausible deniability” (I was misquoted). This is when individuals try to create a personal safety net for themselves by seeking to convince others that they had no knowledge of the events in question. Someone else gets blamed and becomes the scapegoat for the guilty person’s wrongs.

Sometimes Christians have their own kind of plausible deniability. We claim ignorance of our wrong behavior, rationalize, or blame others—but God knows the truth. The Bible tells us: “Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Sam. 16:7). This is true whether the heart is pure or if it’s a corrupt heart robed in false claims of innocence. We may fool others who see us only on the outside, but God sees the reality of our hearts—whether good or bad.

It is wise, therefore, to humbly confess our faults to the Lord. He desires that we admit the truth (Ps. 51:6). The only way to escape the sin and restore our fellowship with God is to acknowledge and confess it to Him (vv.3-4).

Dear Lord, be merciful to me;
My sin has grieved Your heart;
And strengthen my resolve, O Lord,
From evil to depart.

We may successfully fool others, but God knows our hearts.

—
Whether you are RED, GREEN, REDDISH-GREEN OR GREEN WITH A TINGE OF RED, we want to hear from you

www.facebook.com/changiakenya

From: collins odhiambo
Date: Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 5:47 AM

Here’s something nice to share… Hope you’ll make time to read and reflect..

– – – – – – – – – – –

A Return is Requested….You’ll see why.

Breakfast at McDonald’s

This is a good story and is true, please read it all the way through until the end! (After the story, there are some very interesting facts!):

I am a mother of three (ages 14, 12, 3) and have recently completed my college degree.

The last class I had to take was Sociology.

The teacher was absolutely inspiring with the qualities that I wish every human being had been graced with.

Her last project of the term was called, ‘Smile.’

The class was asked to go out and smile at three people and document their reactions.

I am a very friendly person and always smile at everyone and say hello anyway. So, I thought this would be a piece of cake,

literally.

Soon after we were assigned the project, my husband, youngest son, and I went out to McDonald’s one crisp March morning.

It was just our way of sharing special playtime with our son.

We were standing in line, waiting to be served, when all of a sudden everyone around us began to back away, and then
even my husband did.

I did not move an inch… an overwhelming feeling of panic welled up inside of me as I turned to see why they had moved.

As I turned around I smelled a horrible ‘dirty body’ smell, and there standing behind me were two poor homeless men.

As I looked down at the short gentleman, close to me, he was ‘smiling’

His beautiful sky blue eyes were full of God’s Light as he searched for acceptance.

He said, ‘Good day’ as he counted the few coins he had been clutching.

The second man fumbled with his hands as he stood behind his friend. I realized the second man was mentally challenged and the blue-eyed gentleman was his salvation.

I held my tears as I stood there with them.

The young lady at the counter asked him what they wanted.

He said, ‘Coffee is all Miss’ because that was all they could afford. (If they wanted to sit in the restaurant and warm up, they had to buy something. He just wanted to be warm).

Then I really felt it – the compulsion was so great I almost reached out and embraced the little man with the blue eyes..

That is when I noticed all eyes in the

restaurant were set on me, judging

my every action.

I smiled and asked the young lady behind the counter to give me two more breakfast meals on a separate tray.

I then walked around the corner to the table that the men had chosen as a resting spot. I put the tray on the table and laid my hand on the blue-eyed gentleman’s cold hand.

He looked up at me, with tears in his eyes, and said, ‘Thank you.’

I leaned over, began to pat his hand and said, ‘I did not do this for you. God is here working through me to give you hope.’

I started to cry as I walked away to join my husband and son. When I sat down my husband smiled at me and said, ‘That is why God gave you to me, Honey, to give me hope..’

We held hands for a moment and at that time, we knew that only because of the Grace that we had been given were we able to give.

We are not church goers, but we are believers.

That day showed me the pure Light of God’s sweet love.

I returned to college, on the last evening of class, with this story in hand.

I turned in ‘my project’ and the instructor read it.

Then she looked up at me and said, ‘Can I share this?’

I slowly nodded as she got the attention of the class.

She began to read and that is when I knew that we as human beings and being part of God share this need to heal people and to be healed.

In my own way I had touched the people at McDonald’s, my son,the instructor, and every soul that shared the classroom on the last night I spent as a college student.

I graduated with one of the biggest lessons I would ever learn:

UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE.

Much love and compassion is sent to each and every person who may read this and learn how to

LOVE PEOPLE AND USE THINGS –

NOT LOVE THINGS AND USE PEOPLE.

There is an Angel sent to watch over you.

In order for her to work, you must pass this on to the people you want watched over.

An Angel wrote:

Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart

To handle yourself, use your head..

To handle others, use your heart.

God Gives every bird it’s food, but He does not throw it into its nest.

Send it back, you’ll see why !

A box of gold

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

With a secret inside

that has never been told

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

This box is priceless

but as I see

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

The treasure inside is

precious to me

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Today I share this

treasure with thee

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

It’s the treasure of

friendship you’ve

given me.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

If this comes back to you

then you’ll have a friend

for life but, if this

becomes deleted, you are

not a friend.

Send this to everyone you

consider a friend!

This is a magic frog.

It will grant you one wish and only one wish,

that is, if you decide to send this to others. You can wish for anything.

Repeat your wish until you have stopped scrolling. Make it count!

FOR YOUR WISH TO COME TRUE YOU HAVE TO SEND IT TO:

3 PEOPLE – YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE EVENTUALLY

5 PEOPLE – YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 3 MONTHS

10 PEOPLE – YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 5 WEEKS

15 PEOPLE – YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 1 WEEK

CAN’T WAIT A WEEK???

22 People-Your Wish Will

Come True In 1 Day!

****** **********REMEMBER**************

THIS MUST BE SENT OUT THE

DAY YOU READ IT FOR

YOU TO GET YOUR WISH

I hope you too will find this inspiring and share it with others.

Regards
Collo

– – –
Subject: A Very touching story

“Mumia H. N.”
date Oct 4, 2009 1:14 AM
subject The Bible..

Dear YPs,

Is it possible that the Bible is one book that has brought us so much confusion? We have changed our culture and values because of this Bible book and what is written in it. I think Africans should go back to their roots, and realize that we brought up real men through cultures like polygamy. A man or woman learnt real values in the traditional culture. We had our own beliefs. We did not need some fake preacher to tell us how to get saved and live life.

Our systems were working.

There was respect, honor, real values. Real discipline. We had the whole community getting involved in the affairs of our children.

I submit that the Bible was the beginning of our downfall as Africans. We were colonized by religion. We need to open this for discussion.

What do you say?

Mumia

kennedy waweru
date Oct 4, 2009 11:15 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Greetings Bwana Mumia

I beg to differ with your point of view, and it honestly is not a valid point at all. The Bible has not taught us how to live in sin at all, if anything it is the complete disregard of what the Bible stands for that has brought our downfall. We may have changed our culture because of the Bible, but have we stuck with the Bible?

Along the way, some have strayed from the Bible teachings and that is not the fault of the Bible.

Remember, not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is really a follower of Christ. If we adhered to the teachings of the Bible as a community, then believe it that there would not be a pleasant place to be as in that community

Kind Regards,
Kennedy Waweru

God is the epitome of sanity, while Satan is the epitome of a world, and of people, gone mad

Dan Nyutu
date Oct 4, 2009 3:01 PM
subject Re: The Bible..

Mumias,

i greatly differ with you. The Bible came in to shed the light to our hearts. It gives us the mind of our Creator and helps us to align our thoughts and behaviours more to what He expects of us.

As bwana Kennedy said, its the lack of adherence to godly principles that has brought us the downfall. remember if we loved one another as the Bible urges us, we wouldnt kill, not steal, no corruption, no wars, money intended for hospitals, education, roads would be spent on such.

Dan.

samuel njoroge
date Oct 5, 2009 7:39 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

MR Mumia i don’t want to sound rude but i think you have missed the whole point ,it is not the BIBLE that has colonized us it is the western culture teachings and practices that stink ,mind you the bible is the constitution between God and “christians” . i think the reason why they introduced the so called freedom of worship is for people like you, just practise what you feel like but dont critisize others , no body forces you to do what the bible says and so i think you should practise what you think is good for you , some of us don’t even know about the traditional practises u r talking about and won’t like to be associated with them either.oops sorry but thats the way i see it.

lastly don’t confuse yourself.talk about the western culture and not the BIBLE. very few understand it .and it will alwayz remain like that .

blame the west and not the bible please.

okello emmanuel
date Oct 5, 2009 10:31 PM
subject Re: The Bible..

I think Mumia has a point. Even Kenyatta said, “those guys came holding a bible, and told us to shut our eyes and pray. By the time we said Amen, we were holding their bible, and they had our land.”

ACTUALLY, religion is a weapon. Anyone who tries changing another person’s religion is an enemy for which most religions prescribe a death penalty. EVEN christianity. Some of our cultural practices were repugnant and had to change, but my view is that the bible has complicated matters. Especially coz it is interpreted inconsistently.

Check this true story: A POLICEMAN on Saturday caught his wife in action with a pastor at two afternoon in a lodging in Kisumu. He forced the two love birds to march through town completely naked, until other cops had to intervene after about two Km. Now, everyone puts the words Pastor and Bible in one category.

kennedy waweru
date Oct 6, 2009 1:31 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Isn’t it the same Bible which says that

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:1-2 (KJV)

Yes, they are there today and have made the way of truth be spoken evil of just like you have done. But the simple questions is this, if you have your own traditional way as you propagate and several of the elders (which still used to happen) preach water and drink wine, does it make your traditions bad? If two of your siblings are thieves and two are not does it make your parents bad parents? does it mean the parents taught them how to steal? of course the focus will be on the thieves (and media attention) and not on the other two who are good citizens.

Even as the Bible foretells of false prophets and teachers, when we do stumble across them we tend to render the Bible as false…isn’t that ironic? How many true Christians exist today…many. Have you tried to highlight them…or is it the stray seeds that are more interesting? Tell me of which system that ever existed in this world where there was no stray seeds, even the traditional ones?

I have read of true Christians in our recent times who have gone to a point of death for the sake of others. Maybe we should try to take a look at them as well as we also look at bad seed just to ensure we are not bias.

Kind Regards,
Kennedy Waweru

God is the epitome of sanity, while Satan is the epitome of a world, and of people, gone mad

joyce sambu
date Oct 6, 2009 2:50 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Surely the bible cannot be blamed for the erosion of values in our
society. What about the people who do horrible things in the name of
‘African culture?’ What do you blame that on?

From: joseph nyongesa
Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 12:03:55 PM
Subject: Re: The Bible..

The bible as it is now, is to be blamed. It has been too much “doctored”. Any one who has studied biblical greek and hebrew can tell so. And the reason is mainlyl this. Taht the original languages in which the bible was written have a wider semantic range ie meaning range…so that often we dont have suitable english equivalents. And so that i dont seem to be beating around the air(aimlessly that is for beating the air in itself is not bad), let me give one illustration.
Rom 8:31. Most translations use the conditional “if” God is for us but in the greek text it is the factual “since” God is for us who can be against us.
Now that is just a tip of the iceberg. Some of this things if we get to know them…..

Cheers.

From: Jerry Manu
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 05:47:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: The Bible..

Joseph,

I would beg to differ with you the language usage has been done over time to make it more easier for people to understand and read. Take for example the verses you have just given because one has used if and the other since does it change the meaning to an ordinary person with basic English command?.

To be frank the Bible gives the way forward at the same time it warns of the dangers you will encounter as you move on.

The Bible was given to guide the Christians on how to keep their faith but when you study the Bible for educational purpose you are bound to find it weird the way you are putting it just remember the guys who were building ‘MNARA’ to reach God what happened to them.

Believe me if you interview those who do the confused things and they know the Bible they will talk about have been Christian but they have backslide that mean they know they are doing contrarily to what the Bible teaches.

Cheers
Jerry.

“simba@ . . . ” days ago)
date Oct 7, 2009 4:01 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Manu,

There is a big difference betweeb if and since. ‘Since’ is definite, while ‘if’ is suggestive. “If God is with you” means there are chances he might not be with you. Since God is with you means it has already been decided he is with you.

Unfortunately the book you mentioned in its present form is source of the worst obscenities. Talk of rape, homosexuality, incest, harems, drunkerdness, murder, prostitution etc. I do not know why the church condems these vices yet anybody who reads the bible is able yo pick up ideas and practice them.

Simba

okello emmanuel
date Oct 8, 2009 2:42 PM
subject Re: The Bible..

What I see in all the mail on this subject are the two common words, “I THINK”. That is enough reason to get us thinking. Everyone should let everyone think, but the Bible should ideally not be open to discrete interpretation. There should be one version from which then, we would be able to share one with another. As things stand now, the bible is no longer one book, because you can never quote a single verse without clarifying which version you are quoting from. I THINK.

Jerry Manu
date Oct 9, 2009 2:05 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Okello,

Thank you for your obersavation, The Bible is one what you are talking about are different versions which if you are a born again Christian should not bother you because you will always walk with a helper known as the Holy spirit Jesus knew people will have these problems and when he was going back to heaven promised the discipals that he will send them a helper remember the great teacher by the name Nicodemus went to Jesus at night because he was a learned person and was percived so in the face of the people.

Maybe i can give a simple anology mobile phone chargers come in different shape and specification but you go to a shop you ask for a mobile charger the shopkeeper will ask you for which model phone but they are all charger they draw power from the same national grid. Graham Bell discovered the telephone have you ever heard of any other discovery? do we still have the Graham model? but aren’t they all drawing from Graham master piece.

Jerry

okello emmanuel
date Oct 9, 2009 4:42 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Hey. JERRY, I thought the Catholic Bible has more books than the Protestant one?

Then the protestant one has more versions than I can keep track of. And THEN, even the protestants cannot agree on what their Bible says, and they frequently have to resort to Pangas and RUNGUs to sort their issues out. Honestly, what do Christians expect observers to think?

Josiah ogalo
date Oct 9, 2009 5:42 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Simba,

You are attacking God as having inspired obscenities in complete ignorance my brother. First and foremost whatever was written in the bible was to warn us and show us the truth as it is, that which holy. The bible has account of good happenings and bad ones……same to quaran. Whatever is called “Jihad”……so what does the the quaran say? Doe it have historical account of what things happened? If so there must be some bad occurences, however if it doesn’t, then when was it written? I may launch an investigation into the origins of quaran at this point.

Well I also tend to think moslems are the worst pretenders……..If you give me quaran then I shall be able to read for you a few sections which moslems don’t fulfil and a few sad accounts of bizzare happenings. The fact that some bizarre occurences are recorded in the bible does not mean that God condones such acts…….so would be conclude that God allowed those acts to happen!

By nature we human beings are the ones capable of doing nasty things ourselves…..remember massacres in world history {Adolf Hitler} because we have free will and conscience.

The fact that some bizzare happenings are recorded in the bible does not mean God condons evil…….”He lives in inapproachable light, and in Him there isn o darkness, righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne, he sits on high and darkness surrounds him”

Please, you’re arguing from a very shallow and uninformed point of view!

Regards
Josiah

Josiah ogalo
date Oct 9, 2009 6:52 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Okello,

I am not God to judge anyone…….what faith or religion are you?

Yes the same bible speaks of “hypocrites” meaning, there are some “wanna be’ christians. At this stage let us not get into debate of who is a genuine christian or who is a “hypocrite”…..all shall be known whe God finally judges the world and reveals to us who his true sons and daughters are!!!

Do not criticize the bible or christianity on the basis of only one aspect alone……..have a holistic appreciation of facts about it. The fact that some people fight yet they call themselves christians doesn’t make the faith a failed one, furthermore even you have your personal sins which you commit against the faith you uphold……..don’t you. If you’re perfect then you’d be staying with the gods in that other world!

Excuse us……

Regards
Josiah

kennedy waweru
date Oct 9, 2009 7:55 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

I really find this strange manu. Just like you have said that you picked a copy of the star and there was a picture of a naked pastor and lover, does it mean the management of the star condone that behavior?

Come on bwana, read exactly what you have stated and see if God condones it!! Not skimming through the Bible looking for small patches of reported incidents without knowing what exactly God has to say about it.

Kind Regards,
Kennedy Waweru

God is the epitome of sanity, while Satan is the epitome of a world, and of people, gone mad

Random Notes
date Oct 9, 2009 8:53 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Brothers

When one reads the bible is one supposed to read what it says and take it literally or is there a another meaning other than what it says? Take for example from Leviticus – 27 ‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads…” and from Exodus 22:18 18 “Do not allow a sorceress to live” These biblical verses were quoted and used by Christians to murder thousands of women more than 1500 years into the Christian era. Did God allow Christians to do this? Is there some context we are missing? Would it be wrong if one took these verses to mean we all have a duty to kill witches? Is the bible to be taken literally or do we ignore parts of it like these?

The parable of the great supper (Luke 24: 14-23) was used by Christians as justification to torture other human beings who were non-believers for centuries in order to compel them to join their faith. Why did God allow this? (Modern translators e.g. NIV realised the danger of these verses and have now “translated out” the word “compel” from this verse but kept the meaning.)

Atrocities by Hitler anyone? – well, God of the old testament has some of his own too – he clearly commanded his people to commit genocide, he commits infanticide on innocent first-borns in Egypt because of the Pharaoh’s stubbornness and in probably the most notorious in 1 Samuel 15:3 he issues a direct command “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys”. Did he allow this or command it? Why? Clearly this is immoral by every measure of our morality. The story of Noah demonstrates that because God is unhappy with the wickedness of man, he decides to do something about it himself. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah’s family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history (though I don’t believe this story – it illustrates the point well) – it is easy to become numb to all the killing and murder in this book.

These points I raise is not to denigrate the bible or your faith but to show you that the bible is questionable and cannot be used as an absolute truth or moral authority in our lives today. You must test everything you read including the bible and filter it through your intellect. Do you know that just about 150 years ago Christians owned other human beings (just like we own livestock)? Why did God allow this?

It is not shallow and uninformed to question the Bible, it an act of enlightenment.

The Bible is an ancient work that has not changed with the times while our knowledge and enlightenment has grown with time. Much of the morality in the bible (especially in the Old Testament) is hopelessly out of tune with today’s world – and must be questioned for relevance and/or usefulness.

Regards
Random

kennedy waweru
date Oct 9, 2009 2:25 PM
subject Re: The Bible..

If God is the creator, the giver of life, isn’t it within His rights to take away that life. Oh yes, now we have the wisdom to question His ways and His morality…

But I thank God for it is by faith that the righteous shall live. And not only did He take away the lives of those who sinned before, but He has promised to do so again. He didn’t spare the angels who sinned and will not spare us who sin just because based on our wisdom it is immoral. It is Him who gave and Him alone has the right over life. Do I question that, no I won’t for my wisdom is nothing compared to His…unless off course the God we believe in is a man.

Christians, I always do say this; that salvation and the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. Choose to follow the wisdom of man, but just before you do, take your time to see where that wisdom is taking him…take a look around you at the emerging world where people have chosen not to retain the knowledge of God in them.

kind Regards,
Ken

David Kilonzi
date Oct 9, 2009 6:05 PM
subject Re: The Bible..

People,

If you think the bible is confusing or brought western culture to us, try aethism or tradistional religion. My grandmother, before she passed away, used to tell us we should never stop going to church because before she was baptized and became a christian, she was in bondage of ghosts and spirits of ancestors who used to visit at night and beat them up if there was no food in the pot! This ended abruptly the day she was baptized!

so I would wish those who want to be go back to traditional ways to do so and share us their experience down the line

festus ouko
date Oct 10, 2009 5:23 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Hi,

It is indeed healthy to discuss the holy book objectively for God himself says come let us reason together and worship the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind. However, it is tantamount to taking a retreat from reality to state that just because the bible sites cases of sin it condones it.

Simba, the true mirror of the heart beat of God is the bible in it’s entirety-it’s gist and prime message. It would also be well advised and worthwhile to study the biographies of Jesus.

In a nutshell, Christianity is not had,it is impossible through human strength. God seeks a relationship with his most precious creation, you and me. No wonder Jesus ransomed us with his life.

If you need to exchange ideas on this subject or any other, you are also welcome to meet.

Great Moi day or is it heroes day?

Ouko

okello emmanuel
date Oct 11, 2009 6:01 AM
subject Re: The Bible..

Hi, Jerry. I am not saying anyone is good or bad. All I am saying is that as things are, any dispassionate observer would be confused. The Bible itself says, quoting Jesus, “YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS.” Meaning, according to me, that we can look at someone and know whether they are a true follower of Christ or not. What puts me off are some ppl who appear to prescribe standards for others while ignoring the realities on the ground, or addressing others as if they are silly.

From: joseph nyongesa
Sent: Mon, October 5, 2009 10:55:00 PM
Subject: Theological tutelage- amuse.

“ In the minds of most Christians, formal Christian education qualifies a person to do the lords work. Unless a Christian has graduated from Bible College or seminary, he is viewed as being a “para”- minister… someone “less” than the big boys. How dare such a person preach teach , baptize or administer the masters supper if he has never been formally trained to do such things…?

The idea that a Christian worker must attend bible college or seminary to be legitimate is horrifyingly ingrained. It is so ingrained that when people feel a call for God on their life, the are conditioned to begin hunting for a bible college or seminary to attend.

Such thinking fits poorly within the early Christian mindset. Bible Colleges , seminaries and even Sunday schools were utterly absent from the early church . All (these) are human inventions that came hundreds of years after the apostles left the human stage.

How then were Christian workers trained in the first century if they did not go to a religious school? Unlike today’s ministerial training, first century training was hands on, rather than academic. It was a mater of apprenticeship rather than of intellectual learning. It was aimed primarily at the spirit , rather than at the frontal lobe.

In the first century, those called to lords work learned in two ways

1) They learned the essential lessons of Christian ministry by living a shared life with a group of Christians. In other words, they were trained by experiencing church life as non —leaders.

2) They learned the lords work under the tutelage of an older, seasoned worker….”” To be continued hopefully…

– – – – – – – – – – – –

From: david ngua
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 10:53:34 AM
Subject: Re: Theological tutelage- amuse.

This is a great insight that all need to remember.
I dont think Nyongesa aims to discredit the Theological training but to show that indeed the best training even in management circles is hands on apprenticeship. the reason educated people go into workshops is to be shown how to combine practical skills and academic knowledge. The reason all employers put the tag experience in a job advert is because they discover academic knowledge in and of itself cannot guarantee success at whatever level.

The reason Jesus Christ used this format to train His disciple who later changed and traversed thier known world at the time is because He was keen and knew that its the passion for a cause that changes the world, not knowledge about a cause. The students missions movement for example has reached and evangelized this country to about 70% of the evangelized areas. Students who after realising the need and burned with zeal to accomplish the cause of Christ went out, financed themselves, stayed for a week or two in some remote region of this contry and witnessed for Christ. They have done more than those whom Nyongesa calls the big boys.

It cannot be reiterated more. I see those who complain about those who dont look well educated and cultured doing the work of God and am like, they have actually tried as per their knowkedge level. Its passion that drives them – although it good to note that some are passionate in the wrong direction. Those who are educated and cultured and learned move too slowly, thy think so much, evaluate to so much detail. Its not wrong in itself but it curtails faith. We do what the educated do, analyse, fidget, strategise and later never move.

The real christians of the first century had hands on training and this is what matters for the true servants of God. Acts 4:13 says Peter and John were unlearned and ignorant, but those around took note that they had been with Jesus. Those who serve in christendom must have walked with Jesus – the practics element and not just learned in the ways of Christ.

Kudos Nyongesa for seeing with the eagles eye

– – – – – – – – – – –

From: Catherine Gachahi
Date: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Theological tutelage- amuse.

While i agree with the below, i have to poinht out the importance of a combination of both Education and Experience as it builds the whole person. Education gives you information that you will need to do the job, why we do certain things and the general procedures followed in doing those things. Experience teaches us that there are alternative ways of tackling things-there are several ways of killing a rat. It gives you a better way of doing things in the shortest way possible, faster and at the lowest cost-effeciency and effectiveness. There are many ways that people learn-some need notes to read, some need to be taught, they need to see a teacher whom they can ask questions and probe more on the topics being discussed-like me for example, i can learn something unless i am taught, ati i just read it from somewhere. Some need illustrations-like pictorial representations of issues, graphs, powerpoint presentations-they are more visual-these are more of statistitians, accountants, architects, artists, etc. Some, like my lerned friends, like to read large volumes of data and information of cases sijui from which age and tim, they like history and liek to read alot of books and will be able to remember such information that no other person can.
How ever, my point is, that people learn in different ways and you must not look down upon any kind of person because they learn in the best way they know how. I must however repeat that every experience has to be backed by some education (background) and every academic qualification has to be accompanied by valuable experience-if you can. But since educaion is expensive in this copuntry, that is when lots of experience becomes your saviour- if an employer sees that you are a valuable asset then they will take you to school.

On to the topic at hand, i do not see why you would go to the university to civil engineering so as to build our roads better, i go to school and take a Bachelor of Human resource Management so as to become a better HR manager and somebody else goes to school to study journalism so as to work in the emdia industry…and yet you will not go to school to get the facts about the word of God and know the best way of enhancing the gospel. Don’t you think you would be giving God and your congregation a raw deal? ati since i have the bible on my hand i can be in a very goo position to preach? To play the guitar, you must first learn the different keys, notes and tones. Unless you cannot afford to go to school, of which God’s grace will still be sufficient, please give God’s work the seriousness and seniority it deserves. Anyway, we all do God’s work in one way or the other. I try to be professional and become the best Hr we have ever had. and everytime somebody gets a new job, that’s my joy-even more than it is for that person who has gotten it-for real! Lets do the best we can to be the best in our differnt disciplines. If you wonna be a preacher/pasi/priest, what ever you want to be called, try to get the experience and qualifications needed to stand infront of God’s people and preach the word-He lifts the banner higher for those who lead the people of God.

My thoughts………

Wangechi Gachahi
HR Consultant
Adept Systems Management Consultants

From: Rhoune Willis
Date: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS

Victoria,

Thanks for making things clearer. You put it across so clearly like a thousand wise men put together. We need such wisdom in this forum.

Kind regards,

Rhoune Willis

— On Thu, 9/3/09, Victoria Kioko wrote:

From: Victoria Kioko

Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 3:04 AM

Dear All,

For some time I ignored you all in this issue for none of you is wrong, and neither of you is right in your spiritual or physical understanding of Tithing.

If you all read the Scripture and seek God’s guidance for both understanding and discernment, you will Tithe but not where your Tithe does not go to the Lord’s Purposes but to enrich an individual. And neither does the inverted Tithing systems I see in many of our churches today reflect the spiritual or physical purposes as per Scripture.

So pray so that in obedience to the Lord, You Tithe:

But not where the Tithe is going to the building of an individual’s bank account and wealth, while those who bring the Tithe including yourself are squatters in slums, with hungry and unschooled children, unable to access medical care etc. That’s is an embarrassment to Scripture. Do not tell me that I should close my eyes to this destructive inverted form of presenting and representing Scripture for the Spirit of God is Alive to give me Wisdom, Knowledge, Piety, Understanding, Courage, and two other Gifts that I have forgotten. Such tithing does not meet the two greatest commandments of loving God with all your soul, heart, mind, body AND loving your neighbour as thyself.

But on the other hand, just because your Pastor does not seem to understand the Purpose of the Tithe, and is busy building his bank accounts and acquiring for himself and his family all the wealth on earth, You cannot run away from Tithing. INSTEAD, RUN AWAY FROM THAT INSTITUTION OR SHALL WE CALL IT YOUR PASTOR’S COMPANY? GO TO A CHURCH THAT DOES MEET THE LORD’s PURPOSE AND DO YOUR TITHING THERE.

IF NONE OF THE ABOVE MAKES SENSE, IDENTIFY THE SPIRITUAL AND PHYSICAL THOUSANDS OF PURPOSES SURROUNDING YOU THAT EXPLAINS TO YOU WHY THE LORD CALLS US ALL TO TITHE AND PUT YOUR TITHE THERE DIRECTLY.
THE LORD WILL SURELY BLESS YOU!

Vicky

Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS
From: Albert_Kochei@ . . .
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:04:57 +0300

Hi all
Thanks.Kindly note that everything that takes place in the physical has a spiritual implications.In other words nothing takes place in the physical without being birth in the spiritual realms.
Rgds
Baraka Tele
Albert

“….When it rains,all Birds fly for shelter,But the Eagle alone avoids the rain by flying across the clouds,Problem is common to ALL but ATTITUDE makes the difference”

Sent 03 Sep 2009 10:25 AM
Subject Re: FIRST FRUITS

Thanks Flo, you’ve said it all and Albert for the elaborate approach.

Bless you all.

Tony.

From: Florence Ndungu
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:39 AM
Subject: re: FIRST FRUITS

There is nothing as difficult as trying to explain the importance of tithe to a person who isnt saved. Once you have Jesus in your life, tithe comes natural and such arguments seize. Why don’t we take one step at a time and get to know Jesus first. He is the way the truth and the life and through Him we have eternal life. I beseech you brethren to seek Him now before its too late, call on Him to save you and He shall do so. Let’s not take for granted the fact that Jesus died for us so that we have eternal life. Call on Him while He might be found, it will reach a point in time where people will be so tormented they will call Him and He wont answer, tusifike hapo tafadhalini… May God bless you and reveal himself to you as you seek his face.

Peace..

Regards
Florence N.

From:Rhoune Willis
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS

Hi All,

I know so well that the word of God says that I should pay my Tithes and give a love offering. I totally agree with the word of God. My problem is, should I pay while I know this money only makes one individual rich? the same word of God teaches me to act with wisdom.
Where is my wisdom when I pay my tithes that only one person benefits from all this money? instead of being channeled to do the work of God?

Christians let us not be duped and taken for granted because the word of God says, we read the same word of God to become wise, It is my daily prayer that I become wiser than Solomon.

Let us be wise and say no to corruption in the House of God. We will not become less christians by correcting wrongs in our churches. What I will not buy is just pay no matter what it is used for.

The Bible says that only those who work hard should be let to eat. Why should I work hard and let somebody eat my sweat? just like that? Not possible. I would rather pay my tithes to a church that uses it to touch the hearts of the unfortunate in society instead of enriching an individuals.

Christians lets stand for the truth for the Bible teaches us to be truthful. Lets stop pretending while we condone evil and bad in the House of God.

Kind regards,

Rhoune Willis

— On Wed, 9/2/09, SAMUEL MAINA wrote:

From: SAMUEL MAINA
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 6:57 AM

Hi Pastor Albert,
I don’t know why many pastors don’t elaborate or guide their flocks well on the subject of Tithes, cos many people think it’s a fabrication of the Pastors to make money using the WORD of GOD. Can you please enlighten their congregations on the subject of TITHES, cos nobody has explained what Tithe is all about? I thought Florence would but she didn’t.

Thanx
Maina.

— On Wed, 9/2/09, Albert_Kochei@wvi.org wrote:

From: Albert_Kochei@ . . .
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 2:49 AM

The Word of God is not about whether it is true or not!It is the WHOLE ABSOLUTE THRUTH.People may misuse it for their own selfish gains,but that does not reduce its truthfulness.The desire of God for humankind is that all may be saved.Satan comes to confuse and at the end of the road, stills,kills and destroy.Jesus came to give life and in abundance.As a minister of the Word of God, it is wise to let all you people know that each one of us will present him/herself before the Throne of God for Judgement, and we shall be called upon to account for all that we deeds.As to those who squander the cash, they too will get their portion of judgement!!
Let me take you through what the Bible says about Tithes…….”In Tithes and offerings.You are under a curse-the whole nation of you-because you are robbing me.Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse that there may be food in my house.Test me in this,says the LORD Almighty,and see if i will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so mcuh blesisngs that you will not have room enogh for it….”Malachi 3:8-12
Dear people, let us give our Tithes not as man’s obligation but rather because God has commanded us to do so.The Lord requires us to do only one thing-OBEY.Many people may not be obeying but if YOU take the word of God as it is,your life will truly be never thesame again!!!
Rgds and May the Word of God Inform all your actions.

“….When it rains,all Birds fly for shelter,But the Eagle alone avoids the rain by flying across the clouds,Problem is common to ALL but ATTITUDE makes the difference”

“Florence Ndungu”
Sent 02 Sep 2009 07:33 AM

Subject Re: FIRST FRUITS

Morning all,

The bible speaks clearly about tithes and offerings in the book of malachia 3;10. (Just read the whole of chapter 3) please let us not be deceived people, God commands us to tithe! It is a command like any other lets not sugar coat this and think that we can cover it up by doing charity and all, there isn’t any substitute of that… what the preachers do with the tithe is their problem. They are supposed to use it for God’s work but if they miss use it then that isn’t your problem. You have done your part as far as your concerned and God knows that if these guys squander the cash they will answer to God!!! so don’t say you wont tithe coz the preachers are squandering your cash that isn’t an excuse and I wonder how you will explain that to God during judgment.. Lets be wise people, not in our own ways but read the word of God and understand what He expects from us. Preachers moving to Nairobi and preaching about cash is just the beginning, we are living in the last days people and more drama is yet to come.
That is my take. God bless y’all.

Regards
Florence N.

From: Rhoune Willis
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:02 PM
Subject: re: FIRST FRUITS

Hi Solomon and Susan,

Thanks for addressing the issue of accountability. Can you please do the same to the other issues I raised? Why are preachers moving to Nairobi? about tithes? first fruits? do the Preachers who run the Ministries tithe? and to who?

I believe we have men and women of God here, why are they quiet? Pastor Birai please say something.

Kind regards,

Rhoune Willis

— On Tue, 9/1/09, susan gichuhi wrote:

From: susan gichuhi
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 2:21 AM

Thanks Solomon, you have echoed what i wanted to reply and say, I have been worshiping there since 2003 and have every reason to recomend anyone. The gospel is preached as it is. Any one looking for a church, any NPC will do

From: Solomon Ojoo
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:55:40 PM
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS

I MOVED FROM ONE CHURCH TO THE OTHER LOOKING FOR ACCOUNTABLE CHURCH WHICH DOES NOT PREACH PROSPERITY GOSPEL AND DOES NOT FLEEZE THE CONGREGATION.

MY SEARCH CAME TO REST WHEN I FELLOSHIPED AT NPC – VALLEY ROAD.

KINDLY TRY IT AND YOU WILL BE GIVEN AUDITED ACCOUNTS ON HOW YOUR TITHES AND OFFERINGS WERE USED AT THE ENDD OF EVERY ACCOUNTING YEAR.

——-Original Message——-

From: Rhoune Willis
Date: 31/08/2009 17:52:37
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS

Hi,

Thanks to Carol for bringing up this for discussion. I have been disturbed about giving my tithe. To be sincerely, I dont tithe yet I attend a church that preaches alot about tithing and givng first fruits.

I want Pastors, Bishops, Apostles and other church leaders in this forum to address this issue.

At times I feel guilty, but then I console myself that I would rather do my donation to the less fortunate than tithe. Why? because for example in my church, there is no transparency and accountability, yet this is a leading church in Nairobi. We have never been told how much has been collected by the church an how much has been spent.

We give for everything, when there is a conference, wedding, to support the needy, to support invited guest preachers name it. We also give our first fruits, which I did not give this year. Reasons, I dont know for now. Maybe the conviction is still lacking in me.

Many preachers are now in CHURCH BUSINESS. Have you wondered why most preachers are moving from Mombasa and Nakuru to be based in Nairobi? They HaVe realised alot of money is in Nairobi and they need to get this easy come money. This is so sad. How the church of God has been turned into a house of making quick money. Why do you think every preachr is now fighting to have her Ministry? So that nobody questions how they spend the money. They elect a church board that is loyal to what they say and want.

We are asked to give for everything and anything. Because the bible says “Give and it shall come back to you good measures pressed down shaken together and running over” It is now like we have to buy blessings from God. This is so sad, I wonder who will bring sanity back to he church.

Our church leaders have been compromised, they grab public property t build their churches, thus making them saves of thegovernment, they cannot then speak of government ills, they fail to provide leadership when a country is about to go for a refurendum and during elections thus leaving the flock to be attacked by hyenas. They have failed.

We elect tem on the promise they will bring sanity and the cange we want in our parliament, yet when they go there, they re compromised and behave like the rest. Either we pray that God comes down to help us or we will remain suffering in the snares these so called church leaders.

Be watchful!

Kind regards,

Rhoune Willis

— On Mon, 8/31/09, Solomon Ojoo wrote:

From: Solomon Ojoo
Subject: Re: FIRST FRUITS
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 6:42 AM

HII CAROL.

The bible is very clear on giving.

Tithe is directly 10% of the gross and there is no argument about it whether you are saved or not. Read Malachi 3:

Giving is according to the way you feel.

I do not think God is that unreasonable that He may expect you to give your full salary and remain with nothing for your upkeep. How do you give all your salary on the confusion with the first fruit.

But if you are convicted that you give your whole salary, then that should be a personal conviction and it must be a special one. After giving your whole salary, will you tell your landlord that you cannot pay rent? Will you tell matatu tout that you cannot pay fare or petrol attendant that you will not pay for the fuel etc.

Kindly give 10% of your gross earnings up front as the first fruit and give offerings as the spirit leads you. Do not count what you help people with as part of the tithe, that is giving.

——-Original Message——-

From: ABBY OTIENOr
Date: 31/08/2009 16:04:26
Subject: FIRST FRUITS

Hi Wanabidii and the pastors in the hse!

i would like you to enlighten me about first fruit. I know its biblical, but is it right to give all ur salary ama just a portion of it, this has been confusing me becoz i was told if i dont give the whole amount of my salary then God wil not be happy and i dont think i want to annoy my God.

Someone please help me here

Carol

I have not come to defend the married priests of the Catholic Church, but for us to understand the catholic church, lets historically reflect on the papacy as the head of Catholic Chucrh:

Daniel 7:25
25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

Now, when we compare with Pauls letter to Timothy, we get something which is a pointer to all these:

1 Tomothy 4:1-4
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Let us again flashback to what the Catholic church has to say over Daniel 7:25
“We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages, and a thousand other laws…”
Peter R. Tramer, Editor, The Catholic Extension Magazine, in response to a letter May 22, 1954.

Historically we know very well that even some popes had wives as outlined by none other than a married Catholic priest in the link http://johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm There was once even a woman pope by the name Pope Joan

All in all let the Bible be the absolude reference guide in matters relating to faith, as it is the sole authority given to us from which even Jesus himself aslways quoted from.

Fred Nyanganga-Otieno

——————————————————–
You Call Me Arreddo Nyang’, I’ll Respond
Permanent Address:
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– – –
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:57:40 +0300
From: fred nyanganga
Subject: Catholic Church and The Celibacy of Priests

Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:16:28 +0300 [05/20/2009 09:16:28 AM CDT]
From: vincent okello
Subject: Re: The secret

I am copying herebelow a factual rebuttal of some of the hype behind
“The Secret”, by Rhonda Byrnes, by Donald S. Whitney, who has been
Associate Professor of Biblical Spirituality at The Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary. It is a long post, but be patient enough to read
it to the end. I have posted it on this forum before, but I think it
was long enough ago for most people to have forgotten it.

VO

A Review of The Secret by Rhonda Byrne
by Donald S. Whitney

I had never watched an entire episode of Oprah until her program on
The Secret. In the promo for the show, Oprah announced that the
program would present “the secret” to making more money, losing
weight, finding the love of your life, and achieving job success. Who
could resist hearing more about such a claim, especially when it is
made by the most influential woman in America and touted as the key to
all her success? Apparently I wasn’t alone. After the show, Oprah’s
website was overwhelmed, emails poured in, and within hours The Secret
had become the best-selling book in the nation.

A week later, while unpacking in a hotel room, I powered up the TV.
Oprah and two guests from the week before appeared on the screen,
effusive about the transforming power of The Secret. Her website
called the episode, “A follow-up to the show everybody is talking
about!”

People are not only talking about The Secret, they are buying it. I am
writing this review in a Barnes & Noble bookstore, and this particular
branch has completely sold out of the book—again. Only two days ago—so
I am told—a storewide announcement assured a horde of anxious shoppers
that another large shipment of the book had arrived and would be
brought to the sales floor momentarily. Readers quickly grabbed every
copy. Almost impossibly, The Secret is even outselling (at this
writing) the final Harry Potter book. And if that weren’t enough, the
audio edition of the book follows these two as the nation’s
number-three seller.

The Australian author of The Secret, Rhonda Byrne, introduces the book
by admitting, “A year ago, my life had collapsed around me” (p. ix).
Through searching for answers in a variety of books new and old, she
began to trace what she believed was a common thread in them all. She
dubbed it the “Great Secret—The Secret to Life” (p. ix).

Byrne became convinced that this was the key to explaining the success
of “the greatest people in history” (p. ix). As she started practicing
this secret, Byrne says that her life immediately began to change in
ways nothing short of miraculous. She decided to make a video called
The Secret to share her discoveries with others. In March of 2006 it
was released on the Internet, but soon went to DVD. By late autumn,
the phenomenal success of the video placed it on two episodes of Larry
King Live. Shortly after, two of the teachers featured on The Secret
were guests on Ellen Degeneres’ daily TV show. Before Christmas, The
Secret DVD had spun off a book by the same title which Oprah Winfrey
catapulted to the top of the charts in February of 2007.

The essence of The Secret is “the law of attraction.” According to
Byrne and the twenty-nine co-contributors whom she quotes extensively,
everything in the Universe (which is always capitalized and usually
synonymous for “God”) vibrates on a particular frequency. When you
think in harmony with the frequency of something, you attract it to
you. If you think about wealth, you will receive wealth. If you think
instead about your debt, you will receive more debt. You attract what
you think about; your thoughts determine your destiny.

Byrne restates the law of attraction in various ways: “Nothing [good
or bad] can come into your experience unless you summon it through
persistent thoughts” (p. 28). “Your thoughts are the primary cause of
everything” (p. 33). “Your current reality or your current life is a
result of the thoughts you have been thinking” (p. 71). According to
the product description on the DVD, “This is The Secret to
everything—the secret to unlimited joy, health, money, relationships,
love, youth: everything you have ever wanted.

Byrne promises with ironclad certainty: “There isn’t a single thing
that you cannot do with this knowledge. . . . The Secret can give you
whatever you want” (p. xi). By it “you will come to know how you can
have, be, or do anything you want” (p. xii).

In the final analysis, The Secret is nothing more than Name It-Claim
It, Positive-Confession, Prosperity Theology (without God and the
Bible), built on a foundation of New Age self-deification. In other
words, the book is just another version of what some TV preachers have
taught for decades, namely, if you will sustain the right thoughts,
words, and feelings, you will receive whatever you want. But The
Secret adds this important twist: your thoughts can bring anything
into your life because you are god.

Books that promise health and wealth for their practitioners are
published every day. But few associate such promises with Byrne’s
breathtaking audacity. She proclaims to her readers,

You are God in a physical body. You are Spirit in the flesh. You are
Eternal Life expressing itself as You. You are a cosmic being. You are
all power. You are all wisdom. You are all intelligence. You are
perfection. You are magnificence. You are the creator, and you are
creating the creation of You on this planet (p. 164).

If that weren’t blasphemous enough, realize that the book your
neighbors and coworkers are reading more than any other also tells
them,

The earth turns on its orbit for You. The oceans ebb and flow for You.
The birds sing for You. The sun rises and it sets for You. The stars
come out for You. Every beautiful thing you see, every wondrous thing
you experience, is all there for You. Take a look around. None of it
can exist, without You. No matter who you thought you were, now you
know the Truth of Who You Really Are. You are the master of the
Universe. You are the heir to the kingdom. You are the perfection of
Life. And now you know The Secret (p. 183).

This would be beautiful if it were addressed to the God of Heaven. But
as Byrne thinks this is what we should say to the person in the
mirror, it is the heresy of heresies. Her “Secret” is nothing less
than Satan’s original lie in the Garden of Eden, “You will be like
God” (Gen. 3:5).

It is no exaggeration to say that this book implicitly (and sometimes
explicitly) denies virtually every major doctrine in the Bible. For
starters, the authority of Scripture is undermined in The Secret,
because the Bible apparently has value only insofar as it (according
to Byrne) teaches The Secret.

Moreover, the Bible is neither unique nor supremely authoritative, for
Byrne maintains that the holy book of every religious tradition
contains The Secret. Thus Byrne’s teaching is eclectic, that is, she
believes that all religions and their scriptures are equally valid in
their authority and basically teach the same thing.

Without mentioning Jesus, she quotes Him in Matthew 21:22 and Mark
11:24, claiming that the teaching to ask, believe, and receive in
prayer is the way to “create what you want in three simple steps” (p.
47). And of course, it is not God we’re to ask, but “the Universe.”
Thus The Secret is pantheistic, that is, it teaches that God is not a
Person; rather He is to be equated with the totality of everything.

Despite this brief nod to the Bible, Byrne’s book is marketed upon the
implication that readers probably would never discover The Secret on
their own. “It has been passed down through the ages, highly-coveted,
hidden, lost, stolen, and bought for vast sums of money. . . . Now The
Secret is being revealed to the world” (from the back cover). Thus the
book is Gnostic, that is, it makes you dependent upon a small, elite
group (namely, Rhonda Byrne and her panel of enlightened experts,
“avatars,” and relatively obscure historical sources) to tell you what
you need to know. In fact, in true Gnostic style, Byrne and her
illuminati expressly refer to what we need to know as a secret—”the
Great Secret.” And of course, you must pay—in this case, the price of
the book or the DVD—to learn The Secret.

There’s no mention of sin in The Secret. The cause of all the problems
in the world and in our individual lives is merely bad thinking,
specifically the failure to recognize and appropriately use the law of
attraction. Therefore the solution to everything lies within us. And
that, of course, eliminates the need for a Savior, a Substitute, or a
Sacrifice. The cross and resurrection of Jesus become irrelevant.

Curiously, there’s not a single reference to death or the afterlife in
the book. Apparently this is a non-issue for contributors to The
Secret, for one of them assures us, “no one will stand in judgment of
[your life], now or ever” (p. 177). Another, when questioned about
this on Oprah’s second show on the book, suggested that Heaven and
Hell were present experiences, not future destinations.

So as with nearly all false teaching, the flaws of The Secret are most
visible when you examine what it has to say about the Bible and Jesus.

If I had to commend something about The Secret, I would mention its
emphasis on gratitude and the importance of the thought life. Byrne
devotes several pages to “The Powerful Process of Gratitude” (pp.
74-80). Though she does not base it on the Bible, Byrne nevertheless
encourages just what the Bible teaches in 1 Thessalonians 5:18, “in
everything give thanks.” She says that regardless of the situations
awaiting her, “By the time I am ready for the day, I have said ‘Thank
you’ hundreds of times” (p. 76). Remarkably, she never says to whom
thanks should be given. Nor is her motivation kindred to the one
stated in the verse above: “this is God’s will for you in Christ
Jesus.”

Regarding the thought life, The Secret reminds us that there is a
powerful connection between our thoughts and our actions. While the
thoughts Byrne wants us to repeat are typically contrary to Scripture,
she rightly observes that the thoughts we constantly affirm influence
our feelings and our behavior. This conforms to the declaration of
Scripture that Christians are “transformed by the renewing of your
mind” (Romans 12:2). For us to live for the glory of God and in
increasing conformity to Christ requires not only that we grow in our
knowledge of God’s Word, but also that we constantly reaffirm specific
truths of Scripture, despite feelings or circumstances that contradict
them.

The problem with The Secret is that it focuses our hope selfward and
not Godward. It is all about self-empowerment, self-fulfillment, and
getting whatever we want. But Jesus warned, “For what will it profit a
man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?” (Matthew
16:26). The Secret disregards the fact that God has a Law and we have
broken it (James 2:10). What Byrne fails to realize about her law of
attraction is that our sinful hearts deceive us (Jeremiah 17:9) and
attract not only more sin and guilt, but ultimately, the wrath of God.

However, God in His mercy sent His Son to receive this wrath as a
Substitute for all who will repent of their selfishness and believe in
Him. And “through the true knowledge of Him”—not Rhonda Byrne’s
book—”His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life
and godliness” (2 Peter 1:3).

“The Secret to everything” (to use Byrne’s term) is God Himself. And
God, the “Great Secret,” has been revealed in Jesus Christ, “in whom
are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Colossians
2:3). God has freely told us in the Bible everything we need to know
about discovering the unlimited “treasures of wisdom and knowledge”
found in Christ. And He remains an unknown Secret only to those who
will not look for Him there.