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Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:12:01 -0400
From: “Dande, Edwin”
Subject: RE: amnesty is not a relief available to ordinary kenyans.

http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=732
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Date:  Tue, 20 May 2008 14:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
From:  Judy Miriga
Subject:   Re: Vs: Re: Let us UNITE our country…
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Judy and everyone

This is a good observation. I always say if I were to take the mantle of leadership, I would bring as many as possible those former settlers to restart development.

Look for example the railways. It took them 10 years to built Mombasa Kisumu, Uganda railways. For fifty years, we have not build one.  The beautiful green tea plantations across Kericho, Nandi were by British, what have we done? Nyayo Tea Zones is dying of neglect and poor management. Those huge agricultural lands that used to produce food for the country and the world are now small tiny pieces owned by small peasants who cannot even produce enough for the family. Look around and tell me what exactly can we do best? Crime? Poverty and disease? Beg all over the world?  Where are we heading? I predict if nothing is done, Africa will soon disintegrate into unmanageable pieces and disaster. It is a real disgrace. Something has to be done. Bring those British back? What do you think? Or just lead a revolution or revolt whichever
and reorganize the entire social-economic system? I am one who could easily support and do anything for change where possible. Many had hopes in Raila but GEMA could not allow. What next? What is happening in South Africa, chasing away the “foreignrs” could repeat itself in Kenya at a greater scale because of mismanagement of resources. The continued inequalities
in distribution of wealth will take its natural course. The recent chasing of kikuyus from all over
other regions especially RV, will go a notch higher next time if a democratic, wise leader is not found soon. The foolish forceful resettlement of IDPs without addressing the past, is futile. Police
stations or police guards will actually accelerate the hatred. This is a clear repeat of favoritism that will never work. Men and women made of steel and Iron must stand up for this time. If only we had just ten Railas, Ruttos and Orengos…Fearless men who would dare the Mungiki gangs in parliament and in statehouse.

Raila the other day asserted that those youths arrested were fighters of democracy and must be
released.  Nothing is better than that. Now, that is daring for a prime minister in the government. Men, this is a hero we have. Yesterday he met with Police commissioner to pressure the release of our warriors. These warriors should be honored at their release with purple heart mendols. We would not have the current coalition government if they did not dare the Kibaki’s Mungiki thieves. Someone, a fearless soldier of justice needs to dare deal with Kivuitu justly. Any man out there to take care of this criminal who is protected by the government? Revolution requires fearless men and women like Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Abraham Lincoln, Nelson Mandela etc. Freedom is never by plater, it is sometime by blood. Jesus shade His blood. Joshuah destroyed not only Jericho but decimated the populations by the order from above. Kivuitu needs to go. He is not worth the thousands who died horribly in Kibera and around the country.
Remember the bodies you saw even of children in the motuaries? Remember the burnt bodies in Naivasha?

Little child crying helplessly while the parents are slaughtered by Mungiki? Why? Why? Why? Did Kivuitu have to do what he did knowing what it would lead to? He declared at KICC “you think you will be the only one who will be a refugee? Let what happens happen, I don’t care”. Go back to KICC during the counting of votes and watch that video, forward it to us if you may. He knew what he was doing. He is not only careless but evil. He is responsible for all the deaths in Kenya. How do we unite a country while such a person is still in charge of ECK?

David Bett

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Date:  Wed, 21 May 2008 09:03:19 -0700 (PDT)
From:  david bett
Subject:   Re: Vs: Re: Let us UNITE Our Country…

http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=735
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Date:  Tue, 20 May 2008 13:08:33 -0400
From:  Joram Ragem
Subject:  Re: “NO PARDON FOR POLL CHAOS”. COULD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL PROSECUTE KARUA AND KIBAKI FIRST
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Barack, I totally agree with you the law should be applied equally, small and mighty.   We are actually saying the same thing only that we are approaching it differently. 

My take on this is first take the poll chaos suspects to court.  Let them record statements whether they were doing it on their own or somebody paid them.  This statements then can be used as evidence to fry the big fishes. 

Of course the normal cause of the law should be followed, evidence and eye witnesses.

Barack, if we continue killing one another for political reasons then we don’t have a future because there will always be as many political opinions as there are politicians. 

Nkuraya

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Date:  Wed, 21 May 2008 06:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
From:  charles nkuraya
Subject:  Re: “NO PARDON FOR POLL CHAOS”. COULD THE ATTONEY GENERAL PROSECUTE KARUA AND KIBAKI FIRST

http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=685
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Date:  Sat, 10 May 2008 01:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
From:  owili nyatawo
Subject:  Re: Is Kisumu City too lucrative for illegal Asians immigrants in Kenya than other Cities?

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Dear Richard and Nyatawo,

Interesting observations …. !

But before I comment, please help me with this iformation: Is there a weblink to ZIWA? If so, kindly provide it. If it doesn’t have such, then (1) how are prospective investors supposed to be aware of its existence; and (2) how do they market themselves, including to the wider potential markets?

Secondly, a new business should make itself so attractive that prospective customers/investors are NOT cajoled, seduced, or otherwise pressurised to participate in it.

Perhaps, to the extent that ZIWA directors are feeling a bit  ‘frustrated’, as you indicate below, is a measure of the falure of the investment product to develop its own momentum in terms of attracting investors based on its own attractiveness.

My humble opinion is that Luos have come a very long way, with our past littered all the way with tens and thousands of failed investments, let alone failed initiatives.

That may mean that, in a poverty-infested community such as ours – in which we have been suffering ‘credit crunch’ for the most part of the last 5 decades, long before ‘credit cruch’ became a parlance of the global finance markets as it is now – people not only tend to lack surplus funds for investments, but those who have naything to invest tend to go for secure, well-established, investment vehicles as a means of minimising investment risk.

That obviously means that it it easier for a Luo man or woman, with some spare money to invest, to gravitate towards ‘secure’ (even if low-return) investments like 90-day Treasury Bonds, IPOs, or investing in shares of listed companies like Kenya Airways, KCB, etc, etc – where the risk of absolute loss tends to zero owing to structures in place to avoid such loss.

The future of Luo-led ‘collective’ investments lies in making sure that such investment vehicles (i) demonstrate security; and (ii) guarantee acceptable minimum yield. If not, then their failure to take off is a sign of (i) lack of confidence in these investment vehicles; and, of course (ii) their inability to compete with alternative investment vehicles (like Treasury Bills, Stocks, etc) that offer greater security, guaranteed returns, and protection from loss.

Basic economics teaches that people do not likely to invest their hard-earned savings in any particular vehicle on the basis of ‘ethnicity’ or ‘patriotism’ alone. Far from it! The latter factors are what drive harambees (voluntary contributions) in community ventures, rather than the case of investments, which see greater economic rationality – as individuals weigh their anticipated minimum returns against all available investment options.

The challenge is for anyone considering initiating a community-based business venture to move away from expecting participation based purely on ‘ethnic loyalties’ (‘patriotism’) rather than demonstrated ability of the investment vehicle so formed to stand its own ground in terms of the minimum expectations in relation to investment security and yield that anyone with funds, and ample choice, would be expected to look into.

We have seen numerous initiatives, by way of proposed community based businesses, but I wonder how many survive inception stage to maturity as successful enterprises in which Joka Nyanam could feel secure investing their meagre savings?

That is our challenge, and we need to examine whether it is the lack of technical expertise, or something more cultural, that inhibits our overall success in germinating and growing successful enterprises.

Blessings.

Citizen Awuor
London   

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Date:  Tue, 20 May 2008 13:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
From:  Bob Awuor
Subject:   Re: Is Kisumu City too lucrative for illegal Asians immigrants in Kenya than other Cities?

http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=730
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Date:  Mon, 19 May 2008 06:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
From:  charles nkuraya
Subject:  Re: “NO PARDON FOR POLL CHAOS”. COULD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL PROSECUTE KARUA AND KIBAKI FIRST

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On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:14 PM, barack abonyo  wrote:

Dear Charles

 I read your response and I respectfully appreciate your point of view and do agree that people who take other persons life must be denied the privilege of the same.

However, I am particularly concerned that you have not mentioned what should be done with the initial instigators of this violence. My point of view is that there be a level playing field when it comes to the application of the law. The law must not be respecter of persons. In a case where the person agitating for arrests of the criminals is openly the biggest criminal or where the criminal is the prosecutor or judge.  It is practically impossible to apply the law without bias. Martha Karua
for example started this and was even willing to extend it for along period of time. How come she is the still the minister of constitutional affairs.  To me Martha is a real criminal and until she is arrested and charged then the Kenyan government has no business charging anyone for this evil.
Martha’s crime was open and was video taped. Some of the guys arrested are in jail because of allegations.

I wish we could be on the same page on this.

Barack

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Dear Barack, Charles and All,

 Let us not take for granted that there was a deal struck to end violence, share power, and reconstruct laws (Constitution, Land, Elections etc) that should never return Kenyans to the mess we went through.

There is no right or wrong side in as far as whether to pardon or not, as it pertains our (Public) opinion. Rather, let us push for the Truth and Reconciliation type of commission, or a grand jury so to speak, like the one SA had. In this commission, let those with issues put them on the table.
Here, the accusers and the accused will decide whether to forgive or pursue prosecution.

In this commission or grand jury, the government and the politicians need to recuse themselves as they are partisan.

My 10th great grandfather Ragem, urges Raila, Ruto, Karua, Saitoti, Kibaki, Kalonzo, Uhuru, Mudavadi, Kilonzo to refrain from politics as usual and embark forthwith on accomplishing the objectives of the coalition, whether the coalition lasts 6 months or 5 years.

 The whole world, and the law of self preservation as Kenyans dictate that we unite or perish. Raila and Kibaki decided to coalesce, we the subjects must follow. Otherwise Barack, Charles and others who are hell bent on making the petty Kenyans politics our  daily cup of tea form their
own political parties and begin the task of unseating Raila and Kibaki. If Ababu Namwamba secedes in forming a grand coalition, you too can succeed in joining politics and quit your day job.

—
Joram Ragem
wuod Ndinya, wuod Onam, wuod Amolo, wuod Owuoth, wuod Oganyo, wuod Mumbe, wuod Odongo, wuod Olwande, wuod Adhaya, wuod Ojuodhi, woud Ragem! (Are you my relative?)

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Date:  Tue, 20 May 2008 13:08:33 -0400
From:  Joram Ragem
Subject:  Re: “NO PARDON FOR POLL CHAOS”. COULD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL PROSECUTE KARUA AND KIBAKI FIRST

http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=725
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Date:  Mon, 19 May 2008 19:51:23 +0300
From:  Paul Nyandoto
Subject:   Vs: Re: Let us UNITE our country
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Paul

I think there is merit in your observation.  Kenya is in a very precarious and delicate political situation right now.  Reading statements from some political players, you may think that they seldom learnt any lessons from post election mayhem in the country.  Time will tell which way Kenya goes.

Dickson Aduonga

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Date:  Tue, 20 May 2008 12:15:07 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
From:  “kesol@ . . .
Subject:   Re: Vs: Re: Let us UNITE our country…

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Hi David Bett,
 
  Well stated Bett. And yes, if Kenyan politicians are worried about de-colonization by the West, then it would be better Kenyans be colonized, like the British did where everyone was treated with humanity and justice was seen to be done at some level atleast, than to be sidelined, marginalized and the brutal killings by your own folks who thinks all Kenyans are their slaves.  They Rule and treat everyone else without humanity worse than animals led to a slaughter house.
 
  Martha Karuas and the likes thinks they own majority Kenyans lives, where they deal with them as they wish.  PNU thinks stealing election is the Pill to Rulership.  They think Dictatorship is the game plan for Kenya.  They all await a RUDE SHOCK.
 
  Kenyans are AWAKE and they all know what they want from their POLITICIANS. PNUs head swell is a passing cloud.  Kenya is headed to a NEW BEGINNING with a NEW CONSTITUTIONAL OUTLOOK that will serve the interest of all Kenyans without discrimination.  A Just and Democratic governance is what Kenyans need.  God Has heard their cries for many years and it will come to pass, Kenya will be a shining star in African Region soon.
 
  God Bless you all,
 
  Judy Miriga

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Date:  Tue, 20 May 2008 14:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
From:  Judy Miriga
Subject:   Re: Vs: Re: Let us UNITE our country…

I highly differ with DAVID OJWANG for supporting  Kalonzos idea of supporting Kibaki coz if it were to me I would blame him for post Election skirmishes and in real sense what he did was for personal glory since later on he went against his own community by appointing his own ministers and councilors what I an say of Kalonzo s that he cant be a national leader  he is a leader with personal ambitions not national ambitions.

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Date:  Mon, 19 May 2008 14:32:22 -0400
From:  otieno mike
Subject:  KALONZO

http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=696
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Date:  Tue, 13 May 2008 04:00:27 +0000
From:  barack abonyo
Subject:  “NO PARDON FOR POLL CHAOS”. COULD THE ATTONEY GENERAL PROSECUTE KARUA AND KIBAKI FIRST
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http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=711
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Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:31:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Ochichi
Subject: No To Post-Election Violence Suspects
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Barack, we can apportion the blame for the violence to politicians to former colonial master and many other groups and people,  but the first blame lies with first person to raise his matchete and killed a fellow Kenyan.

We were all disappointed and angry about what happened in the general election by both parties, but very few of us took a machete and killed fellow Kenyans for those reasons.

While I strongly believe the violence was incited the people who acted on the violence are not children and they know killing is wrong and evil and yet they did it .

It is time for people to owner up to their action, if you are foolish enough to murder somebody through incitement you are foolish enough to go to jail.

That does not mean those who incited should not be sought and prosecuted.

Barack, I also beg to differ rigging of election should not be equal to murdering one another.  The last election will not be the last rigged election the question we need to ask ourselves are we going to massacre one another whenever there are flaws in an election?  Having in mind rigging and flaws still exist in developed democracies.

Nkuraya

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Date:  Mon, 19 May 2008 06:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
From:  charles nkuraya
Subject:  Re: “NO PARDON FOR POLL CHAOS”. COULD THE ATTONEY GENERAL PROSECUTE KARUA AND KIBAKI FIRST

If you read the economic and development co-operation literature, you will clearly note a call for pro-poor policies. But one should now question: is poverty the problem? Or is it the alarming rate of wealth and inequality growth that is undermining poverty alleviation measures? There is something wrong and the fault does not lie with the Least Developed Countries or the poorest segments of our societies. The problem is not the poverty; the problem is the greed and the fact that speculation became dominant.

Read more;

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Date:  Mon, 19 May 2008 03:50:40 -0700 (PDT)
forwarded by:  Kennedy Odhiambo
Subject:   Is Poverty the problem